bit of a ramble.. (15)

i know Tops who claim/believe that they are Dom/me, and start relationships with subs.. and then the subs fight back and cant totally submit, cos the Dom turns out to be a Top or even a Switch, just not naturally mentally or physically strong enough,and by that time the sub and |Top are emotionally involved

can a Top/sub work ?

guess it may be like buying a house- right area, small garden, not enough bedrooms, fabulous loft conversion....are subs prepared, able to compromise to please and serve- accepting a role as a bottom to a Top, or does the sub end up looking down on the Top for not being Dom/me

why cant some tops realise/admit that they are Tops or masochists ? - is it a macho/image thing ?

whats wrong with being a Top any way ?

is there such a thing as trying too hard.. trying to fit into a catagory rather than being truthfull to yourself and others

Is there such a thing as a natural Dom/me or natural sub ? and others that work at being...and tops and bottom who TRY to be Dom/me / sub, cos they think Top/bottom has less cred than a Dom/me = sub

to thine own self be true... and to those you care about

and Lady Stardust sang her songs, of.....
..............Darkness and Disgrace.

In which case the 'sub' is not 'a sub', either?

People often react differently depending on the person they are with and the situation, the labels of sub/dom/switch/top/bottom/slave/masochist/sadist can be simply viewed as the nearest definition rather than an absolute for the whole persona. The knack is to find the people we are most compatible with and taking it from there, all fledgling relationships being trial and error. Obviously there are some glaringly obvious signs that someone won't float one's boat but very often there is grey territory to explore .

Who's the dominant?

Compromise doesn't work for me... I often find that I am the one expected to make all the compromises and that just causes resentment (who says women want it all their own way?).

Lessons have been learned, don't compromise on what is important.

@The_Problem_Page
I want the "Moon on a stick and the Stars suspended from bunting".
So many haystacks, so few needles!

Edited 3 Feb 12, 7:01 AM by chartreuse

It may be that even as a sub you could act as a bottom if the connection with the other person is right. Someone else who is a bottom could end up being very submissive to someone else who pushes all the right buttons.

Stop worrying about it and just *be*.

THIS. Thanks for saying it so clearly @Perplexion.

COSHH Data: Caution: Unsuitable for those allergic to nuts! May contain traces of irony and sarcasm.

One's emotions and mental state fluctuate daily, and also the very nature of D/s or BDSM relationship is constantly evolving...

Even before I was old enough to understand sex, I took to tying up my two female cousins – again, I found it felt like a natural (!) thing to do, and excited me… without knowing why. So I suppose you could say it's fairly clear that it's part of my basic nature.

When I started out meeting other people from the internet, 11-12 years ago, I met and played with a few people from IC, CM etc – and once, when very drunk, I let a woman top me. Even pissed, I found it a profoundly unpleasant experience, and not something I've ever had the slightest inclination to repeat. So I guess I'm a Dom, or a Top, or something like that.

I feel natural and happy topping and Domming. But sometimes I worry a little about the distinction between Domming and being a lazy, selfish, domineering couch potato. Slipping into the latter category is something I'll resist fiercely, but on the other hand there may well be subs out there who would welcome serving somebody like that.

So, as @Perplexion said so concisely, it depends; and relationships evolve – and each one is unique. If you're both happy, do what you enjoy doing; if you're not both happy then, like in any relationship, try to do a lot more listening than talking, look hard at your own part in any difficulties, and most things are fixable if there's the will on both sides.

Over the last year or so on IC, I've noticed some interesting transformations – subs who have spent years proclaiming their essence of subness, and bemoaning the lack of suitable Doms, now suddenly advertising as Pro Dommes; and at least one currently practicing Pro Dom who is actually secretly collared as sub to a woman who insists that she is deeply submissive, but is in the process of setting up as a Pro Domme.

Not for me to pronounce on anyone else's inclinations, but it would seem that, for some people at least, their essential natures are a little more fluid than mine, and it's not something I can understand. My position remains that people should find a relationship (if that's what they're after) which suits them, and not worry too much about the labels – but more than one sub I've spoken to has been seriously pissed off and disillusioned at finding Doms whom they've become attached to in relationships, and who've subsequently turned out to be (or evolved into?) subs – yet continuing to proclaim themselves Dom in public.

Any submissive I've played with, has started out this way. The development of the relationship, the building of trust, is the key to the change.

I don't expect submission to anything but the physicality of the first few plays. How it develops, depends on how compatible we turn out to be.

Owner of The Croppery Dungeon and Breakfast. Organises The St Leonards munch.

Live. Get out and enjoy yourself. Don't hurt or let down other people. - Isn't that a lot better, and a lot more "true", than debating about other people's definitions?

Of course, having said that, I am myself truly a true **** as everyone knows!

Do you mean sadist instead of masochist in this sentence?

As others have said,people are so varied in their types of kink that labels hardly do justice. You may need more time to explore whether kinks are complementary. I can imagine if someone is a "bratty" sort of sub who craves someone strong enough to conquer the brattiness, then a sadist or top who isn't very dominant might be unfulfilling.

"Wisdom begins in wonder” (Socrates)
"Imagination is more important than knowledge" (Albert Einstein)
Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est. http://www.informedconsent.co.uk/posts/226772/

God knows why?! x