"New" Labels for Age Old Activities ? (34)

I agree that it's of no concern to anyone else, and so extenally perhaps a separate label is superfluous, and the wider concept of just consent is more than adequate in some cases.

However, one could say that within bdsm spheres the general label of consent is uneccessary, as everyone accepts that consent at some level is a given, and doesn't need to be stated. Therefore it then becomes the individual flavours or consent that do become important.

I guess I mean that internally the differentiation is important, as I favour blanket consent, or consensual non consent, and it's useful for me to be able to differentiate that when looking for a partner, as I can then exclude those who prefer individual activity based consent, and they can exclude me. In that sense, whether neccessary or not, it's a convenience.

True, but those few people who like those things had no real way to communicate those preferences beyond a reasonably limited circle. As such they were either lucky to find a perfect match, or more likely found an almost or a compromise.

The internet allows them to connect with far more people, so the liklihood of finding someone with the same interests, and not just a close proximity, are greatly increased. As such people will naturally specify their preferences more narrowly as the chance to find a closer match increases. Therefore tighter and tighter niches are bound to appear.

30 years ago if you wanted a partner you picked the closest match based on what you came across. Now you can go online and specify hair, eye and skin colour, height and weight, and god knows how many other attributes, and not settle till you find it, as there are sites that specialise in them all.

I do see what you're saying, but I think it's just a result of greater choice that mass communication brings to people, and so some will identify themselves in ever narrower niches.

You also have to consider the physiological differences. Lying there quietly whilst someone artistically lays out pretty needles is not going to take you to the same head space as being grabbed from behind and brutally repeatedly punched in the face. It's completely unrealistic to expect people to lump those activities in to the same catogry because it will put people off. Both ways are "extreme". But very very different in terms of what a person needs out of a relationship.

The power is in the presence and knowing. 

Like @Elohims_jay I was thinking there were a lot of different names on here fo what, to me, seemed the same type of interests. After reading the posts here I'm beginning to look at it a bit differently and understand the need for it.

Thank you for educating me, after all isn't that what this site is partly for?

xxx

My religion is very simple. My religion is kindness.-- Dalai Lama
Women are born angels. And when someone breaks our wings we simply continue to fly ..on a broomstick. Be warned.

I think that you snipped my comment a little too early in the above as it reads a little out of context. True I have never seen a scene that reminded me of the rape seen on Clockwork Orange … But then again I have never seen any rape scene in public .. so for me I have never seen “rape play” in public.

As I went on to state however I have seen many an “UltraViolent” scene in a club .. it is a “hard play” .. a label for this sort of interaction that has been around a lot longer than 20 years. In fact you see events stating that if people wish to “play hard” then let the DM know so they can be assured they are not interrupted by the misplaced concerns of the uninformed or unknowing observer. I am sure we have all witnessed a scene using a cane or single tail that has left the recipient looking like corned beef but that is not considered requiring its own label .. why does the fact a fist or foot is used instead of an implement mean it needs separating out from what is normal and acceptable “hard play” ? Is a black eye and a split lip so great a distinction from a blood dripping welt on the ass ?

Perhaps it is just simply down to the type of events and “lifestyle” we have been exposed to ? I have been to events where it is aimed to people new to the scene and it is understood that play is of a “lower level”. Not because anything else is wrong or sick or too depraved or violent to be seen in public .. but simply to ensure those going to a first event are not overwhelmed with what they may not yet understand. But then I have been to just as many (if not more) events over the years where “hard play” is perfectly fine and acceptable. Blood can be drawn in certain areas .. you can punch, kick, whip and generally batter each other black and blue to your heart's content . Those that have expressed concern are assured all is normal and fine and told they should look elsewhere if it upsets or offends. But that is the sign of a good event with good DM's …. For me the concept of safety police BS is also something I have only encountered recently.

My feeling is that the problem lies with those thinking you are fucked up. Giving something a label does not change the misunderstanding or ignorance .. in fact it probably serves to expand it by now making it seem “special” or “elitist” …. Why not put the effort into explaining and educating so there is sufficient understanding that labels are not needed ?

An activity taking someone to the same headspace is a totally individual concept and a quiet needle session my well take someone to the same headspace a good face punching takes you. I do not think it is possible to say it cannot …. It cannot for you maybe .. but you cannot say that is the truth for every other individual. I believe the same is true of what is needed from a relationship …. It may be true for you but someone else will get exactly the same from another “extreme” activity.

Lumping into a category is the same as UV is already doing … what of those that enjoy the black eyes and split lips but believe breaking bones is too extreme ? there are those that believe with out the odd broken bone or two then it is not really “Ultra” ? already this label is “subdivided” based on how extreme just as UV was born from the label “hard play” to categorise extremity .

"You and you alone make me feel that I am alive. Other men it is said have seen angels, but I have seen thee and thou art enough." ~ George Moore

It used to be that people actually spoke to each other, so the definitions werent really necessary because they all knew Joe was into xyzflyfishing and if he went into a fishing shop he could just ask.

With the advent of the internet, without labels it would take years and years to sift through the information without some sort of labels...

@Play_Space - Next party is Friday, February 3, 2012 and the first Friday of every month!
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Edited 28 Jan 12, 5:16 PM by Ama_Sidero

In context I asked this:

You replied:

Back in that context, how does it contradict what I said: "there's a distinction between styles of play right there - so great a distinction that you've never seen one style in public even though you've seen it in private" ? Especially when you go on to say this in your current reply:

The point isn't the rape but the ultraviolence. The recreational and aesthetic nature of it, and the passion of it.

You're focusing on the mechanics there. It's like the difference between a tango and a waltz. They're both just dancing aren't they? They're both just steps. Well, no, they're not. And it's also possible to go through the motions of the tango without getting what makes a capital-T Tango.

:T:

www.tanos.org.uk
www.bridgewood.org.uk
The Warehouse: pony play etc, Sat 7 Apr 2012, Exodus, Birmingham

When I first heard 'RACK' I thought it was stretching people on the rack

Happiness is a warm bum

But I HAVE seen Ultraviolence in many many forms in clubs .. I have seen the passionate brutality of it .. What I have not seen is rape in any form ... or has the "label" of rape play now become obsolete because rape play now falls under Ultraviolence ? So I am not sure I now understand asking me about a very specific rape scene then saying the rape is not the point but the violence ... had you asked about other non sexual violent films scenes then there was a good chance my answer to your question would have been yes.

So what is the difference between the tango and the Tango ?

Is the red welt from a whip slowly welling to a single drop of blood to fall down pale skin any less passionate than the rise of bruise around a swelling eye that now turns from a clenched fist ?

Is the brutal forcing of a fist to stomach to reduce someone to their knees to "rape" them somehow more "real" than the calm hours spent peeling skin from the back of a restrained victim who can only scream silently through their tears ?

For me all of those are acts of violence ... all of them are very very real and passionate ... but they have not changed from 30 years ago when they were just "hard play" .. I am afraid I still fail to see any physical or emotional difference between these acts that require some to be classed as violent and some as Ultra violent.

"You and you alone make me feel that I am alive. Other men it is said have seen angels, but I have seen thee and thou art enough." ~ George Moore

The bottom line is that you don't need to worry that this term invalidates anything you do (any more than some people not using safewords invalidates anything you do.)

:T:

www.tanos.org.uk
www.bridgewood.org.uk
The Warehouse: pony play etc, Sat 7 Apr 2012, Exodus, Birmingham

At one end of the spectrum there'll be pedants who'll argue till the cows come home about the importance of definitions and labels, and their precise meaning, and of course, their definition is always the correct one.

At the other end, there are people who prefer not to use labels at all, and will treat each person and situation as individual.

Neither stance is life-threatening.