Choice versus control (19)

i know it stems from the cliché of power flowing up from the bottom – but i've been slapped round the face (yum) with a sudden acceptance that even when i do as I'm told, i am choosing to do so, even if i am punished, i am choosing to let that happen…

i'm sure this is actually a healthier place to be, but for me the big appeal of Ds is that feeling of handing over that control. i'm really interested in how people reconcile the inherent contradiction in the dynamic. Is it just a case of selectively ignoring the reality at times?

i've also been wanting more and more to be in situations where i have no control physically (safeword excepted), and i'm wondering if wanting more of this is a kind of compensation for the acceptance that the rest is a choice?

kirsty xx

Edited Thu 12 Jan 12, 10:14 AM by kirsty_m

There is a part of me that craves being utterly powerless in the hands of a mistress but I know that I always have some control, as you say by choice and by setting limits. There is also part of me that acknowledges this is safe and sensible and that really I shouldn't want the alternative of no control because that is too dangerous.

I haven't yet reconciled the reality of retaining some control with the fantasy of relinquishing all control but I agree firm bondage and also some sensory deprivation is one way to get closer to the fantasy. There is then at least an element of anticipation and surprise about what happens and my mistress is good at exploiting my vulnerability.

S

Choice though is an odd concept. I firmly believe that the purpose of living in this life is to learn to make choices. You may choose to make only one choice (do whatever your priest/mufti/rabbi/master decides) but it's still a choice.

How would you describe someone who chooses not to choose? S/he's still made a choice You can't avoid it. If you are alive, you make choices, every minute of every day. And with every choice you create an alternate Universe where the other choice(s) are carried through. Of course you can never know what has happened in the alternates, but it's nice to know they're there

I'm a bad, bad boy, and I'm going to steal your love.
b-b-b-b-bad to the bone! I make a rich woman beg, and a poor woman steal, An old woman blush, and a young girl squeal!

Unless she's physically a lot stronger than you, you actually have more control than she does. After all, what can she honestly make you do that you do not choose to do?

Let us consider Kirsty's safe word. Should her Dom choose to ignore that, what choice does she have but to allow the situation to continue? In that case she has no choice, for superior strength will dominate. In that instance the only way out is to have done what the Shaolin always advocated; develop superior skill. But that requires thought, dedication and training.

However, this still involves a choice

I'm a bad, bad boy, and I'm going to steal your love.
b-b-b-b-bad to the bone! I make a rich woman beg, and a poor woman steal, An old woman blush, and a young girl squeal!

I'm not sure I'd agree with that as I don't believe that only physical strength can assert power and control.

In that sense, I believe a domme can overcome someone's choice through psychological and emotional methods, just as much as physical ones.

Perhaps it's better to see it in terms of free will rather than choice. If one person can make you "choose" or decide to do something that you ordinarily wouldn't, or that another person can't make you do, then they have somehow influenced your choice and certainly affected your free will.

A stronger mind can just as effectively remove someone's choice as much as a stronger body. In fact quite possibly more so, as it's far more subtle, and the less overt nature of it simply gives the illusion of free will and choice.

Ultimately, if you can dominate someone's mind, you have far more control and power over them than simply being able to hold them down or tie them up. Even more so as they're not so conscious of it so, whilst they feel like they have a choice, it's one that you're determining.

Training the submissive, using psychological stick & carrot, punishment & reward, until the submissive learns what is expected and her 'choices' are what you have taught.

It's all a form of manipulation, brainwashing, & indoctrination. The same as is used by Prison Guards or Teachers of Difficult pupils, to ensure the prisoners/pupils do as they are instructed.

Taken to an extreme, look up "Stockholm Syndrome".

Taken to a further extreme, look at any religion. lol

Edited 12 Jan 12, 3:56 AM by Unholy_One

now that may seem a daft statement but in the very near future i will be giving up pretty much all control, this wont happen overnight and the Domme will not require control over everything overnight, when not with her i will need to buy food, make decisions concerning all things like utility usage, at this stage,during this transitional period she may want/have my passwords, keep me in a cb etc, i will give her more and more control over me where practical, but come the day i,m hers 24/7 live in, all control will be surrenderd to her,

did i say i will GIVE her?? YES i CHOOSE to, but once given it cannot be taken back ever, unless of course i,m released

no animals or trees were harmed in sending this however several million electrons were aggitated

Edited 12 Jan 12, 7:58 AM by slavedave22

Humans make choices. That is how we live. We may not always be aware we are but we do.

I suspect you have just reached a deeper and more mature understanding of yourself and your motivations. I think this is healthy as the truer our knowledge of ourselves is, the better we will be able to relate to others.

Choosing to submit is absolutely fine and is just another choice you make in your life. Knowing that you are in control of yourself is healthy and safe as it means you will be sure you are doing something because you want to and not because you are just pulled by the tide of your desires.

I think it is a very powerful and exciting thing for a sub to really know the choice they make to submit is real, it affirms who and hat they truly are, far more than just doing it without understanding it.

Choosing to hand over control is what consent is at its basic level.

There is no harm and much good in playing in ways which give you all the feeling of having no control, as this is a driver for many. I think how much you can do with it will depend upon how well you can channel your own mind to this contradiction, and of course, the abilities and personality of the dominant you play with. Some dominants are very good at making a presence felt, creating a big dramatic atmosphere and scene setting so you could be seduced by this and really get into the scenarios and play, whilst allowing the real knowledge of your choice to settle in the background and not disturb the fun.

Dominant partner in an FLR with @paulss

The highest fences we have to climb, are those we have built within our mind

Edited 12 Jan 12, 10:03 AM by Sobri_Quet