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| 8 Jan 12, 5:14 PM Ianneil UK(N), 5 yrs   |
Just a small point of logic. In an argument one side being wrong does not make the other side right. | |||||
| 8 Jan 12, 5:14 PM Attitude_Adjuster UK(N), 6 yrs |
Point is she put herself in a vulnerable position with regards to one professional, someone who wouldn't leave her house, and experienced various people overstepping significant boundaries without consent. If you think coercion is about explicit threats, thats pretty misguided. coercion is usually about putting people into a situation where their path of least resistance is to do what you want rather than what they want. That might be because walking out is (logistically) hard, saying no will result in fuss and drama, you haven't time to evaluate the situation, or any other number of things. Blaming her is tantamount to the short skirt argument, though she is not accusing anyone of rape, or even sexual assault, the analogy is pretty much 100% IMO.
And all men kill the thing they love, By all let this be heard, Some do it with a bitter look, Some with a flattering word, The coward does it with a kiss, The brave man with a sword! Edited 8 Jan 12, 5:18 PM by Attitude_Adjuster | |||||
| 8 Jan 12, 5:15 PM Attitude_Adjuster UK(N), 6 yrs |
Indeed. And point of logic well made.
And all men kill the thing they love, By all let this be heard, Some do it with a bitter look, Some with a flattering word, The coward does it with a kiss, The brave man with a sword! | |||||
| 8 Jan 12, 5:19 PM Purvection UK(M), 8 yrs     |
Why are you calling only me out, when others have said much the same as I did, and before I did? And yes, we all have to take a certain amount of responsibility for our behaviour - male, female, dom/me, sub. I was commenting that she hadn't taken enough. I simply do not understand why someone would repeatedly put themselves in a vulnerable situations. It's even more strange when on their own admission they say they know all the safety precautions. More to the point, this is not about being abused by someone who could be abusing a position of trust in a professional capacity and thus laying themselves open to charges of professional misconduct etc, in the way that a doctor might be, for example. This is about not negotiating personal encounters and relationships properly. And yes I'm aware the author is known on the scene, as others have mentioned. Does it make a difference if they have an account on here? Her story is in the public domain and has already been commented on elsewhere. Aut disce aut discede. Manet sors tertia caedi | |||||
| 8 Jan 12, 5:21 PM misunderstoodslave UK(OL), 2 yrs |
Indeed not, (responding to @ianneil 's point that her being wrong doesn't make the other side right) but then we don't have a clear view on what was said to make her sleep with the chap rather than order a taxi. She said yes to stuff she could have said no to. How many times is that going to be ignored. FFS what kind of sexist shite is it to say that women aren't competent to give consent? Sometimes, shock horror, they make mistakes and do stuff they regret. That does not vitiate the initial consent. Otherwise how do you ever know if someone's consent is genuine to anything? Edited 8 Jan 12, 5:23 PM by misunderstoodslave | |||||
| 8 Jan 12, 5:25 PM Attitude_Adjuster UK(N), 6 yrs |
Because yours was the last in the thread, not because I was picking on yours personally.
was one of the examples given. Its my assumption that this was a professional photographer.
And all men kill the thing they love, By all let this be heard, Some do it with a bitter look, Some with a flattering word, The coward does it with a kiss, The brave man with a sword! Edited 8 Jan 12, 5:27 PM by Attitude_Adjuster | |||||
| 8 Jan 12, 5:34 PM Souci_X UK(BA), 5 yrs |
As my quote keeps cropping up, I guess it could also be considered victim blaming. Instead I was blaming bad writing, what you say here is teh crux for me. You assume. Its all assumption, here is a girl talking about an abusive community with very wishy washy examples where you have to make your own inferences. She may well have been abused but none of the evidence given is clear enough. So instead it comes off as a bitter attack. I am not judging the person, I am judging the blog as a piece with which the op asked whether he could just the entire scene. for me its a clear no. | |||||
| 8 Jan 12, 5:38 PM anne_marie  UK(SE), 5 yrs |
We are not talking about a woman walking down the street in a short skirt who is attacked randomly, though are we ? We are talking about someone who time and time again seems to take the easy option.... it's easier to give a hand job than make a fuss phoning the police... It's easier to shag someone than organise and pay for a taxi.... It's easier to say BDSM is open to abuse and abusers than to take responsibility for yourself and your own well being. grammar police = a pearl pendant on the chest of IC Edited 8 Jan 12, 5:39 PM by anne_marie | |||||
| 8 Jan 12, 5:43 PM totallycoverme UK(M), 4 yrs |
It sounds like you're in a mindset where maybe you're coming to terms with your dominance (I really hope that doesn't sound patronising). I say this because you sound worried about going too far regarding play or being seen as taking abusive action. I think the best way forward is to do what you enjoy within BDSM; that is to say that if some activities make you feel guilty, you don't have to do them just to be dominant. For what it's worth I bet there are loads of submissive people out there who enjoy the verbal side of play just as much as the hitty side of things. Masocism isn't just embraced via physical pain (I am an example of this in that I enjoy the fear of the pain but I don't enjoy the pain itself and thus I see myself as an emotional masocist). Also, I bet there are loads of submissive people who have not been abused. I think that maybe it's very easy to assume that people come to BDSM from a bad place and in turn, this could be the sort of thought process that makes a person feel ashamed/worried/in denial of their interest in BDSM. I think ultimately, the way forward is to see BDSM for what it is: a healthy activity that can be very enjoyable when carried out in a consentual and informed way. It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice Edited 8 Jan 12, 5:45 PM by totallycoverme | |||||
| 8 Jan 12, 5:52 PM logica UK(S), 11 yrs |
It was interesting to read it, and thanks for the link. What it brought up for me was something around the few occasions when I too have had experiences that were not too great in a BDSM scene. Usually this happens when I'm more tired than the other person or people. When I'm tired, my judgement not so great, I've certainly allowed myself to be used in ways that left a bad taste (ahem!.. sorry about that). I suppose sometimes I've been thinking, you know, well after all, being tormented is what I'm here for, and what the dom is here for, so maybe it'll be really hot and I'll get off on it eventually if I can just get my second wind... then when that doesn't happen it's a bit crap. That's when I may find myself blaming myself and thinking, bugger, how come I let that crap situation arise for myself. I found the article articulates some of those feelings from a new perspective. Coercion is at the heart of what arouses me - and surely this is pretty central to most BDSM-ers, coercion in its broadest sense. Kitty's taking a bit of flack on here for the article, but for me the whole area of BDSM is on a cusp of when is abuse not really abuse, when is danger not really danger etc. Cos if it really just feels like completely pretend, then it's a bit dull IMHO. Reading her article helped me explore that a bit more... I don't myself think there are clear answers. So thanks to the OP for posting, but I wouldn't worry about it too much. |
