Do you like it or is it a 'means to an end' (44)

I was not talking about only this thread but the boards in general. I should have made that clear. I was happy to see you say that there was nothing wrong with not being sadistic because many here seem to hold the view that without this one cannot be a D.

The way views are expressed (again on the boards in general)seem to imply value judgements or maybe I just infer them. I believe people should explore pleasure and worry less about labels.

When I said just I meant that it is not a two way relationship.

The person here seems to be saying he enjoys dominanting the submissives emotions and he gets the biggest kick out of postive emotions out of spacing and being in control of that. Not being funny but that doesn't make me think service top, it doesn't make me think that what he is doing isn't dominant.

There seems to be a vibe that to be dominant you have to get your submissive to do things they don't want, you know to prove that they will do it and to prove that the dominant is in charge.

All these terms, topping from the bottom, service top etc are all so often used in a way to diminish the relationship style of others. Which really doesn't wash with me.

This person has asked if the emotion at the end of the act is more important than the act itself, he hasn't asked for a critique of his dominant style.

The OP didn't say that he likes to give them exactly what they want. He said " I love the space I go to when I can take a submissive and find the one thing that hits her mark and I then exploit that to her limit." He finds what is doing it for her, at that moment. He enjoys that power (rather than the power of wielding a cane for example).

He is concentrating on his own pleasure and sounds fully satisfied.

I like the power aspect of a D/s relationship. It's the feelings that are the thrill not what type of equipment is used so I would tend to agree with the OP that the paraphernalia is just a means to an end.

I'm loud and I'm vulgar, and I wear the pants in the house because somebody's got to, but I am not a monster. I'm not.

Oh so funny I missed the Macca comment.

I still have more admiration for a Dom who says 'I love driving her wild with pleasure and that's my buzz and I don't so much care if the way to do that is wholly pleasurable to me or not' than one who says 'I want to get my buzz and I don't care is she enjoys it or not' The second of these views means that the s is nothing more than wank material. Yes maybe I will start a thread on that!

Thank you, you are absolutely correct and you put it far more succinctly than I managed.

It's hard to describe my emotional and mental state when I have a Girl in her sub-space. I have to be in the right place in my mind for it to work and that's not always guaranteed, I have to on the top of my game.

But from the descriptions on the web, I'd describe the state of mind as similar to that of sub-space. It's an almost euphoric state of excitement, a rush of emotions, almost trance like state. (It is also sexually arousing which is why I can't separate play from sex). For the sake of argument I'm going to call this my Dom-Space....

At this point, I "feed" off of her submission and her sub-space, I take control and I manipulate her for as long as I can which in turn feeds more back to me.

Once over, I can also feel low for a long time after. The elusive Dom-Drop I think.....

How I get her there is immaterial to me, whether it is pain or pleasure. I find no sadistic pleasure in the method of getting her there....just the end result.

Also, I derive pleasure (emotional and sexual) from taking her control. Even if I gain that through the use of pleasure is that no still a sadistic act? Why are we assuming that sadism is ONLY related to giving pain, is it not in the taking of control over another person by whatever means available.

And I have another issue and you're right here too. Why is it assumed that a Dominant MUST always do ONLY what he wants regardless of what submissive wants or needs.

As a Dominant, what I need is that interaction between the 12 of us at that time. I doubt it would be as forthcoming if I try to make a submissive do something that she doesn't want to do.

Omnia vincit amor

Sounds like fun.

Owner of The Croppery Dungeon and Breakfast. Organises The St Leonards munch.

I completely get what you are saying, and again I dont think this is about being a service top.

Taking away her control, so for the time that she is in space, is a dominant act. I don't think you need to get too bogged down in labels. Sadism is something that people often argue about. You can be an emotional sadist and a mental sadist but they are generally about getting off on the other person being uncomfortable in some way.

It sometimes is, not always and for me it would never work with someone who didn't take both my wants and needs into account (although I don't think it will work at all if they didn't take needs into account

Some submissives like to do things that they wouldn't choose to do, it can be very validating and can give wonderful fulfillment and a sense of achievement, not all feel this way but some do.

The point is, its your style, it works for you and thats fab.

sorry but, no. it's not. unless, as souci says, that makes the other person uncomfortable in some way.

but why should it be? why bother to try and redefine sadism, when you could just redefine yourself? there's nothing wrong in *not* being a sadist, you know!

Now 12 is just greedy!