Submission or Ownership  (22)

Full Ownership isn't a prerequisite for every person wanting a bit of kinky sex and calling it submission.

Whether someone's particular blend of 'BDSM' consists of bending over for a bit of bedroom spanking on a saturday night, or whether their lifestyle is 24/7 kollared Gor, is up to the couple concerned.

But the question is, does a "one size fits all" label describe it all equally accurately?

Edited 1 Jan 12, 11:27 PM by Unholy_One

Labels seem to work reasonably effectively as we all use the labels we appropriate in different ways.

So, one person's version of ownership is not the same as another's, nor is one person's submission.

My point wasn't about labels but about what ownership does have to mean without losing all it's meaning which is possession. My point was does possession then mean one takes full responsibility for another person and if one does, how does that alter the relationship between the people and the relationship itself.

Dominant partner in an FLR with @paulss

Edited 2 Jan 12, 10:00 AM by Ms_Valentine

The idea of someone being responsible for me fills me with horror for several reasons, not least that that seems to give them *more* work, make their life harder. I appreciate that for those who like to own/possess, this may not be the case, or that it's a responsibility they like to have, but that's how it feels to me, and is thus diametrically opposed to my desire to make life easier for a partner.

Plus, I just downright don't want anyone to be responsible - or feel responsible - for me. I'm quite the capable adult.

No answers here, but I think it is a jolly good question, and I am musing on something related for myself - so I would add, how does that taking responsibility alter the people's perceptions of themselves and is that necessarily a good thing. And yes it depends on the people - I just think it is yet another aspect to be considered.

What you have works for you both. So that is good, and perfect and as it should be.

Edited to add clarity

Edited 2 Jan 12, 10:04 AM by NimueBanditQueen

I think for me this is an extension of what I feel about bdsm in a wider way, which is that we are mainly responsible for ourselves. Not that I partake in very edgy stuff but even the things I do enjoy which hurt when applied to others are carried out by me, being responsible for whatever I do to my submissive or bottom, but not responsible for them. I take care of my actions, making sure I do them no lasting harm and they take care of themselves, acting responsibly at their end. This means I am no more responsible for them than I would be for anyone else in my life and they are treated as capable, intelligent, and self determining adults.

Dominant partner in an FLR with @paulss

Only my opinion here, the partnership should be aimed at the growth of both partners and they should support each other. Thus, a sub should be supported and encouraged to live a full life, have a career, have friends, and be supported and encouraged by the Dom.

Put another way, the submission is when the sub is with the Dom, and while the Dom does all that is possible to support and encourage the sub, the sub has responsibility for their own life outside of the submission.

Ownership, in my experience, tends to be the total control of another person's life. That control can be very restricting to the total growth of the sub, restricting responsibility, ability to have a fully satisfying career etc.

So coming back to Submission or Ownership, in my view the relationships should have two aspects. The time when the sub and Dom are together, when it could be said there is an ownership aspect. The time when the sub is involved in their non-sub life pursing careers etc when the Dom's role is that of supporter and encourager but not decision maker.

Possibly a specific might help. I know a sub that has taken of a very big project, and has worked very hard with a lot of success on the project. Like all projects, they can get you down and the end never feels in sight. Now in my view the Dom's role here would be to support, encourage and use all his/her skill set to assist with the project to fruition in the manner that the sub desired. Guide, encourage and help, but the responsibility is the subs and the end result is the subs to enjoy.

I hope that makes sense it is an area where labels do seem to cause problems.

Ed: Missing comma

This post is my opinion, sorry if you don't agree with it or if it offends you in any way

Edited 2 Jan 12, 11:10 AM by Hatari

It is interesting as I see having control over someone's life as different to ownership. This is mainly because with control outside of ownership, the submissive partner can just leave, without breaking any etiquette or concept integral to the relationship. So, I have enormous amounts of control over @paulss but only because he chooses day by day to remain in our FLR. With his consent, my control is enormous, without it, it is nothing and I accept that fully.

In my relationship he is ready to be submissive to me, 24/7 whether I demand it actively or not at any point. So, if I called him at work and said very clearly 'Come home now, I need you' he would do it knowing I would only do that if it were vitally important. I wouldn't have to explain as the fact I was asking would be enough. So, he is always ready to do his duty by me whether with me or not but mostly as in all relationships, crises are not daily or even monthly, so his work days are just like anybody else's, filled with work, not my dominant demands.

I should perhaps have made clear that my comments were really thinking about submission and ownership within 24/7 LTRs of a D/s nature. A primary relationship, with 100% commitment by both people to each other and the relationship.

I see my role as a dominant within our FLR as very little different to one I would have if I were in a vanilla LTR except we have agreed to is female led and his efforts are focussed on making my life happier and easier, whatever that might entail. It is a broad brush stroke approach but means anything is possible but some traditional ideas about a dominants role are challenged as either irrelevant or accepted as no different to what loving partners in any relationship might do.

Dominant partner in an FLR with @paulss

I am coming round to thinking that if you 'take responsibility' for another person then you potentially allow them to take less responsibility for themselves.

It is an inherent part of the situation from then on, that you have taken more than your share of adult human responsibility and so have lessened what the other needs to show. I see responsibility nowadays as a finite thing, so if one takes more, the other must by definition have less.

I suppose this also means I feel 'owned human property' cannot have 100% responsibility for itself, as becoming a possession of another in an ownership sense has removed a portion of its requirement and ability to be 100% responsible for itself. It is a complex philosophical problem but for me is very important.

I need that 100% from my submissive partner. I need them to be able to always think for themselves, make decisions for themselves, and sometimes make on the spot decisions as to what they think would be best for me or most likely to fit with my needs. Micromanagement is at the furtherest end of the spectrum to my way of doing things. I prefer to educate my partner as to what I like and then let him show me he has the ability to take responsibility for providing me with good service and making my life better in so far as he can do that. I should say he has no more responsibility for me than I do for him so he can't make my life better, he can only do his utmost to help that occur. I have to be able to accept his efforts and appreciate them for my life to have been improved by his service.

Dominant partner in an FLR with @paulss

There, I think what I was trying to say was that ownership takes two and that the role of the dominant is, in my view, to ensure that the submissive is free to serve by ensuring they don't have to worry about their needs (not wants) being met.

My view is very much that my D/s relationship is one between two equally valued individuals who adopt opposite roles. As part of that, I don't want her to worry about basics in her life that would stop her concentrating on serving me.

I have to say this is still very much a work in progress and a goal for us both. It isn't about failing to be grown up, responsible people: It's about her being free to serve, knowing her needs will be met and about me being able to accept that service, knowing I am keeping her safe, healthy and happy, even when I demand much of her.

My goal - to save women from nature (Dior)
Follow me on twitter: @belasarius99

Edited 2 Jan 12, 11:55 AM by Belasarius

I think the important word here is 'consent' and on that, everything hangs. Without it there is nothing even in an ownership situation, thus if the sub withdraws consent the ownership fails.

Like most good relationships I have know in a crisis the effect would be the same, for either partner whether Dom or sub or vanilla, they would return home to help or support as needed.

Perhaps I should add that my comments in the earlier post apply whether the relationship is a living together one or one where the two partners live separately it only has to be monogamous. I do believe that any monogamous relationship whether under one roof or two is 24/7. Again, we come up against a title. Just because the partners live apart for whatever reason if the relationship is monogamous and not just a play relationship the responsibilities of the two do not change from those that exist when they are physically together. A crisis can still occur that needs the support of the partners for each other.

I agree with most of the above, but with a slight twist. As a Dom, I believe that both parties to the relationship should focus their efforts on making the other partner's life happier and easier.

As a general statement, I see little difference between vanilla (I do hate that word) relationships and BDSM relationships. There is only one addition that is that both partners enjoy/need a BDSM content to the relationship other than that everything else is the same or very similar.

I know of female lead vanilla relationship, so I would say the difference from vanilla is the BDSM content of the relationship.

This post is my opinion, sorry if you don't agree with it or if it offends you in any way