The Pride of a Woman (92)

Naah, but your comment may be the most melodramatic one of all time.

Hahahaha.

So, you think it's just fine and dandy for you to post utterly ignorant and demonstrably false posts on poppers in another thread but where this guy admits to posting on something he doesn't feel fully informed about you call him ignorant?

So, by your logic ignorance is knowing your ignorant but being unknowingly ignorant isn't ignorance. I feel there's a implied logical absurdity somewhere in there.

Indeed.

Edited 29 Dec 11, 5:34 PM by Mistress_Maud

FFS he's actually read them.!

Zen S&M: The sound of one hand slapping.
'()_/)
(>'.'<)
(")_(") < MINE!

Hardly, my dear.

Look, if you want me to make a legal document of it - with all the possible loopholes closed so that there is no possibility of misinterpretation - then fine; but I promise you, such a document isn't meant to be read in such a leisurely way as a forum post. Ergo, to make it readable, I am relying on reasonable common sense that people can fill in the blanks and make four out of two plus two.

Of course it's not "just" from people's reactions - I have to have an idea of what people are reacting to in order to know from whence the reactions come. I wrote what I wrote as a form of shorthand. Sorry it passed you by.

*You* find out first, then post - or it's *you* who's cabbage-looking.

My Grandma had a pair of boots,
My Grandpa had some too:
They met some skinheads yesterday
And kicked them black and blue.
-
Salad is a dish best served cold.

Edited 29 Dec 11, 8:24 PM by The_Majickian

Because you are putting forward rude and bigoted opinions on something you by your own admission know bugger all about.

Maybe stick to talking about... oh I don't know... things you actually KNOW something about? Because then, you know you might NOT look stupid?

Case closed.

I think not, actually.

I put it to you that you want me to stick to talking to something I know *everything* about. Sorry, but I'm not quite young enough to know everything about everything - and neither, I suggest, are you - so we proffer opinions. What happens with opinions is that we make plain our impressions, based on a certain amount of knowledge; now, some have a lot of knowledge, some have little knowledge - and I have given the warning that I do not know that much about it which, you should credit, is more than many people on many subjects do.

Also, as per my previous answer, do remember that I am not going to plug every single loophole in what I write, but rather rely on the common sense and decency of the reader in interpreting it. You can be obtuse if you want - I would hardly call you stupid - but try and play the game, and move things along a bit...

My Grandma had a pair of boots,
My Grandpa had some too:
They met some skinheads yesterday
And kicked them black and blue.
-
Salad is a dish best served cold.

Edited 29 Dec 11, 8:52 PM by The_Majickian

Not what I said.

I have no problem with you having an opinion - however ill-informed - I do however object to you being absolutely rude and offensive on the basis of very limited hearsay knowledge.

I'm old enough to be the opinion that if I know very little about a subject I do better to keep my mouth shut, read and learn. I try not to venture opinions where I have little knowledge precisely because my opinion would be ill-grounded, ill-formed, and contribute little of worth.

As to being 'obtuse' I think the point I made was perfectly clear and a valid analogy. I'm not playing *your* game though, because all you did was drag a reasonably adult and enjoyable conversation down to a level I'm no longer interested in stooping to.

When you start saying people are stuck up their own arses - in however flowery a language - I think you should assume that any readers with common sense and decency will leave the room.

Which I now also intend to do. Do have fun playing by yourself.

Stuck up their own arses? That's news to me!

Stuck in the world of Gor does not mean stuck up their own arses. Surely you can work out that that's what I meant!

My Grandma had a pair of boots,
My Grandpa had some too:
They met some skinheads yesterday
And kicked them black and blue.
-
Salad is a dish best served cold.

Secondly, I stated at the beginning that I was not the author but that the quotes were made to me.

The first response was to label them as sexist without any thought as to who might have made them, and I had indicated that the circumstances were not IC related.

Sexist is defined as being discriminatory on the basis of sex (usually said of men's attitude toward women) If you read the quotes without any preconceived notions they are not discriminatory.

The first is a statement of where one woman's pride in her own self is derived, the other a comment on the difference between sexual fantasy and real life.

The thread quickly became a playground for name calling once the quotes were identified as being taken from the Gor books. I posted to make it clear that what I was looking for in the discussion was not a Gor thing.

This was ignored and as chegne posted:

Quote: ...I've noticed a general rule, that all vilified minorities need an internal minority whom they too can vilify. Thus the BDSM subculture has Goreans for this purpose. .. Unquote

I would like to remind members that the AUP's state that "By using the web boards, you undertake to avoid attacking other people's BDSM interests, kinks or fetishes where they only involve informed, consenting adults." Some of the posts could be considered to breach this rule in respect of those who do practice Gor BDSM.

However, as the purpose of the post is nothing to do with Gor, I will move on.

NimueBanditQueen, despite some earlier tongue in cheek posts, finally took time to read the quotes as they were presented and as part of a response to chegne's remark that 40% of John Norman's readership were female made the following comments:

Quote.... I think, for example, that it is true that the modern western world in many ways teaches women to emulate emasculated men. Styles of dress... just look at the magazines: female fashion is frequently mannish or unisex. Women are subtly taught to suppress feminine styles of dress, manner and communication in order to progress at work. .... Even the way in which we move has become stiff and we are largely out of touch with our own bodies. I only realised how very true this was when I started belly-dancing classes with a high level teacher............. She teaches and studies in Egypt as well as the UK and often told us and showed us the difference between how we were - SO stiff and reserved and afraid of our femininity - and how women in Egypt were, not just physically but also differences in mannerisms and ways of dealing with men.... Unquote

Quote: ... I became afraid of the feminising that was happening to me and realised I had a conflict going on. I am hoping I can go back to it one day, when I have become less afraid to be, physically, who and what I am. ...Unquote

Quote:.... My upbringing basically taught that sex and sexual desires for me were wrong. I think that although intellectually I try to overwrite this and to an extent, succeed, it stills plays a part in my subconscious, hence why what was happening with the belly dancing became difficult, even dangerous to face.... Unquote

NimueBanditQueen, like the lady who gave me the quotes, is of an age when feminism and the emasculation of men was a growing movement. For many young women of the time, they were sexually repressed and today have a difficulty in coming to terms with their sexuality, especially where there is a BDSM involvement. As she says,

Quote:... for women who are sexually repressed, as I was... the idea of being freed into sexuality by being forced into it, given no choice, thereby having the GUILT of making a free choice for what we wanted removed... was very attractive... Unquote

The second of “my” quotes..... "Every woman has a natural Master or set of Masters, with respect to whom she could not help but be a complete and passionate slave girl. These men occur in her dreams and fantasies. She lives in terror that she may meet one in real life." is well explained by NimueBanditQueen.

Quote:... Not true for every woman, sure, but for me personally, I like that statement. Are such men available beyond my fantasies? Not in the way of the books perhaps, but I still have some hopes. ..... "She lives in terror that she may meet one in real life." Because it will turn her life upside down and force her to confront herself - her hidden desires. So many women out there dream of being 'tamed' by a 'real' man. Isn't that basically what the historic Mills & Boone and bodice rippers are all about? ... Unquote.

The fantasy is important, but there is the realisation that such a man could exist for her, not in the fictional way, but someone to whom and with whom she could be free of guilt and totally uninhibited in her sexuality.

Likewise, she has made a translation of the first quote that shows a deeper understanding than I expected.

Quote:... The pride of a free woman is the pride of a woman who is succeeding at playing the rules in what is still essentially a male-led and male-dominated world. The pride of a woman who wants to be a submissive/slave and has found a place where she can follow her internal innate desires to do so and is cherished and valued and appreciated for that, is the pride of a woman who is self-realised and being true to her nature, realises that she is equal to any other, and 'better than equal' to those who cherish her for what she is.... Unquote

Finally, why did I start this thread?

When the lady in question gave me the quotes she told me that this summed up how she felt, how it expressed everything that she felt she was and wanted. She told me how, in her fifties, she had now met someone who could understand her, love her for what she was, and accept her, and with the knowledge that he would never abuse her.

As she is a long time member of IC, I asked why she never posted such things and she informed me that her experience was should she do so, she would be immediately put down and told she was wrong. She had tried when she first joined.

I found that hard to believe, and with her consent, started the thread.

It saddens me to realise she was right.

I'm glad that NimueBanditQueen had the strength to post what she did, and that chegne made his statement, but as NimueBanditQueen said.

Quote: ... Thank you for proving my point about why anyone sensible who might like this literature won't come out of the woodwork and admit it.... Unquote

And thank you IC for confirming that any woman who truly feels happy with her nature and mind to be in keeping with this should be careful about admitting it.

There is no e on mills and boon.