TENS across the heart (95)

SCS

The Titter_Ye_Not group - for when you don't feel too serious.
Linuxware - The Linux user goup
I believe in equality for everyone, except reporters and photographers. - Mahatma Gandhi
www.Londonmunch.co.uk
Londonmunch@hotmail.com - Enquiries

You are more likely to die driving to work. Working in the garden. DIY around the house. Than from estim. A LOT more likely in fact! Especially as there are no reported cases EVER of estim being a direct cause.

We whack each other with sticks, leather and other impliments, we stab each other with needles for fun and a whole load of other stuff that in reality is way more likely to cause issues or have the potential to get infected or turn nasty. Even reddening of the skin never mind welts and bruises.

Yet here we are again with people portraying electro as some mysticle, magical, dangerous thing that needs special attention, skills and restrictions to make it safe to use.

We pour hot wax over each other and hang people from the ceiling FFS!

The pleasure, I fear, will be all mine.
You cant help those that refuse to listen.

So are you suggesting that everyone who purchases a tens Estim from boots the chemist needs to inform their insurance company???

The pleasure, I fear, will be all mine.
You cant help those that refuse to listen.

The logic of this escapes me. If there is no evidence that, for example, electro-play causes damage or death, then the risk is zero, so the insurance companies would discount it as part of a premium calculation. There is clear evidence that crossing the road carries a risk, but despite the many pedestrian casualties, our life insurance policies do not have exclusions for this dangerous practice.

be a switch, double your fun

I think you are refering to EMS (Electro Muscle stimulation, not TENS.

E-Stim is generally more powerful than TENS in terms of sensation, EMS is more designed for muscle sensation.

Si

E-Stim Systems Ltd http://www.e-stim.co.uk

Actually not quite correct, and the person in question doesn't actually USE our equipment.

Si

E-Stim Systems Ltd http://www.e-stim.co.uk

Most TENS machines (eg the ones you can buy in chemists over the counter) have a low frequency mode which is designed to be able to output a signal which will stimulate muscles.

What is the typical output current of your E-Stim machines?

:T:

www.tanos.org.uk
www.bridgewood.org.uk

Edited 15 Dec 11, 11:39 AM by Tanos

There are easily available statistics for the number of people crossing roads at certain times of day and traffic intnsity vs pedestrian incidents and fatalities thus risk can be calculated. The reason Insurance companies put a 'force majeure' clause into their contracts is because it is unquantifiable thus they won't insure against it.

SCS

The Titter_Ye_Not group - for when you don't feel too serious.
Linuxware - The Linux user goup
I believe in equality for everyone, except reporters and photographers. - Mahatma Gandhi
www.Londonmunch.co.uk
Londonmunch@hotmail.com - Enquiries

My memory is playing tricks on me then as I do seem to remember being told that at a fetish fair.

I stand corrected.

Dave

Be the change you want to see in the world. - Gandhi.
He said that any love is good love. So I took what I could get. - Randy Bachman

Firstly we have been designing and manufacturing e-stim equipment on a commercial basis for the last 7 years. we don't make these in a garden shed (well not anymore!!), then go to our 'real' jobs, e-stim design and manufacture is what I do every working day of my life.

As a commercial manufacturer we have to work to certain published standards. Several of those standards cover electrical safety with TENS and EMS units. Since E-Stim is similar in some ways we apply the same standards to our designs. This gives us a good benchmark to work to when it comes to product safety, and is accepted by the vast majority of regulatory bodies, both here in the UK, the EU and the US.

So is E-Stim safe? The simple answer is generally yes. BUT!!... There is always going to be caveats because we have to err on the side of caution....or would you rather we didn't? So no pacemakers, no epileptics and not during pregnancy.

If any company said something was safe, and the 1 in 1,000,000 case turns up the whole planet comes down on them like a ton of bricks. We as a company cannot afford to take any risks with our customers so we will always offer the safest possible advice, and the consensus both from our knowledge, and experience and others is play below the waist is safe. Simple effective and correct advice.

If you wish to play in other areas, we are not saying don't. we are saying try to be aware of the possible risks. Life is not black and white, and electroplay in some areas/situations does have the potential for increased risk. Just because you or I don't know of any documented proof of a case of e-stim causing an issue with X Y or Z, it doesn't mean that it couldn't or won't.

I do know of at least two documented cases of TENS causing issues with pacemakers, hence the advice regarding 'don't play with anyone with a pacemaker'. If we all followed such simple rules then life would be much simpler, but humans do sometimes hide such aspects from their play partners for whatever reason... so do you ask everyone you play with do they have a pacemaker? everyone? and do you check? how? strip so I can see your chest and examine for any scars? (ever heard of keyhole surgery??) or what happens if she's wearing a rubber cat suit? You are assuming that the person has told you the truth, and you are accepting that... but you are still taking a very small risk, that they are not being evasive for what ever reason.

So be aware that risks might exist, be aware that as a company we need to follow a higher standard in terms of advice than that given by the internet equlivent of some guy down the pub. So read the advice and peoples experience, try to feel comfortable with your own understanding, and enjoy.

Si E-Stim Systems Ltd

E-Stim Systems Ltd http://www.e-stim.co.uk