Informed_Debate's profile . Informed_Debate group posts
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| shit_sub |
wiki tells me that democratic legitimacy starts with the consent, overt or tacit, of the governed.
it also tells me that the prominent political theorist Robert A. Dahl has explained legitimacy as a reservoir; so long as the water is at a given level, political stability is maintained, if it falls below the required level, it is endangered.
how many of the governed people of greece, italy or, for that matter, germany are currently consenting?
how legitimately and for how long can the technocrats and bond markets govern them?
what is the tide mark below which we must sink before their rule might be considered out-and-out illegitimate?
... and with what consequence?
Edited Thu 10 Nov 11, 7:33 AM by shit_sub
| 10 Nov 11, 11:34 AM Doghouse_Reilly UK(MK), 6 yrs  |
I think most of the political systems of Europe are robust enough to survive, in the sense that people might go to the polls, change government and demand some serious changes, but I don't think existing systems will actually be overthrown and replaced with anything new. People tend to see their democratic systems as legitimate, even if the lying bags of shit that get into power aren't. Probably sounds a bit lame, but it's easy to forget just how powerful a system European democracies have (had to say European, US democracy is busted). I mean if you wanted to clear out the guys in charge a hundred years ago that would usually mean storming a winter palace or something. Now you can just do it with a vote, and most people respect that. It's only when all sides seem equally bad that problems arise. So I think a lot of places in Europe are going to dump their rulers, but I don't think it will be done with guillotines. The people rage, leaders resign, new elections are had. I think something the Occupy movement has shown is that while people want radical change, they don't necessarily want to do all that much paperwork. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. | ||
| 21 Nov 11, 2:26 PM Gilles_de_Rais UK(EC), 3 yrs |
Roughly 20-25% is the agreed tipping point. Above, you can maintain yourself. Below, your regime collapse. There is no right and wrong when it comes to sex ; only informed consent... | ||
| 21 Nov 11, 5:59 PM Belasarius UK(M), 8 yrs      |
Interesting. Links please My goal - to save women from nature (Dior) | ||
| 21 Nov 11, 6:01 PM Belasarius UK(M), 8 yrs |
I find this really interesting and worth a ponder. Separating, for a moment, markets and technorati, is there a separation between markets and politics? And, if there is, are the markets the stormy seas on which the politicians sail the ship of state? Or are they the puppet-masters? I tend to the former.
My goal - to save women from nature (Dior) | ||
| 21 Nov 11, 6:19 PM Gilles_de_Rais UK(EC), 3 yrs |
An old article in some social sciences newspaper I read long ago - But it imprinted itself in my mind, due to the obvious importance this has to understand, say, the endurance of dictatorship/authoritarian governments until... kaboom, they fall like a rotten fruit... I'll try and see if I still have it at home...
There is no right and wrong when it comes to sex ; only informed consent... | ||
| 21 Nov 11, 6:28 PM Lustful ES, 2 yrs |
A recently published book "The Leaderless Revolution" by a retired English diplomat, Carne Ross, is well woth reading. All I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by. | ||
| 21 Nov 11, 6:35 PM Belasarius UK(M), 8 yrs |
Why? Presumably you have an opinion attached to that? For most here this will be a passing fancy. If this guy has something worth saying, a precis here would be darn useful. And your opinion would add to debate.
My goal - to save women from nature (Dior) | ||
| 21 Nov 11, 6:43 PM Lustful ES, 2 yrs |
John Le Carre wrote of this book: so bold, so full of uncontestable truths and overwelming convictions, that it should be read by every diplomat, politician and thinking citizen with the courage to pick it up. Nough said. All I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by. Edited 21 Nov 11, 6:45 PM by Lustful | ||
| 21 Nov 11, 6:53 PM Belasarius UK(M), 8 yrs |
No, it isn't. That's an observation: But it tells us nothing of the opinions in the book or how they might affect the argument here. My goal - to save women from nature (Dior) | ||
| 21 Nov 11, 6:57 PM Belasarius UK(M), 8 yrs |
I've not read the book. Amazon says: "The Leaderless Revolution will show however that even in democracies, many if not most of the population feel that they are excluded from any agency over the issues that most trouble them, while governments appear less and less able to influence the global problems that threaten our peace and comforts." That makes it relevant, as you've indicated, and it certainly seems to be apposite to my post above concerning markets and politics. But, it still says adds nothing to the debate here. You, having read the book you cite, can. Hope you will. My goal - to save women from nature (Dior) |
