never mind england, what about greece? (33)

The bad guys seem to be the Greek government, who basically plundered the EU at the expense of their people and the people of all the other countries.

But there are of course other bad guys. The Germans, pushing this whole austerity thing, would be the main one. The problem with the austerity policy they have mapped out is that it's total bullshit. Basically it has annihilated the Greek economy, thus ruining any chance of getting the money back. Without a viable economy Greece can't pay off a damn thing, but rather than help them the rest of the EU would rather kick in with punitive austerity measures.

Why do they want to do that? Obvious answer is of course the Italians. Italy is waiting politely in the wings for the opportunity to die on its arse, and it's a hell of a lot more debt than Greece. It is also of course something of a bigger player on the European scene. Greece going to the wall is one thing, we can all just look the other way, maybe sweep it quietly under the edge of Turkey, but if Italy collapses then that's a much bigger deal.

Then of course there's the problems within Greece itself. Not only do they have a severe problem in the shape of an incompetent and corrupt government that seems to have no idea what the fuck it's doing from one day to the next, but it also has a population so angry and embittered that even if the government does come up with a policy it's hard to say for sure if it would even be able to enact it. Any government requires the consent of the people in order to govern, and the Greek government may have lost that.

Personally I don't see how this situation can be resolved, but then I'm not an expert on European economics and I'm sure there are solutions, we just haven't seen them yet. Seems to me though that the death of the Euro and the end of the EU in its present form could be on the cards.

For the record, I'd like to blame the Germans. What they couldn't do to the free people of Europe with tanks they're now trying to do with banks.

The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.

It's no suprise that now some member economies are showing major faults.

Chickens coming home to roost?

Even with the bail-out package now on the table, writing off half of the Greek debt. There's no way they can pay off even the lower amount.

The Euro cannot survive in it's present form.

Owner of The Croppery Dungeon and Breakfast. Organises The St Leonards munch.

What I don't get is...what the fuck do greece produce..lets start with olives, ummm tourism..figs ??..tobaco ?

40 years ago the people of this country were still riding around on donkeys..living life at a slower pace..nothing wrong with that..I remember going to the islands mykanos, santarini etc back in 1984..an hour to be served and the food was cold to warm..dad came out serving balancing 20 glasses of oozo on his head..mum playing the balalaka... nothing wrong with that..

But now jump to 2011 Greece part of the EU..from all accounts the people don't like paying their taxes, ffs they had the Olympics..which nearly didn't get finished until the starting gun went off on the 100 mtrs dash.

So here we have a country that doesn't make/sell much and now in huge debt and they want bailing out..sorry but I say freeeking no..as for germany..I have worked and lived there..a harder working race of people you will not find..work hard, play hard..tac, tac is their motto..why the fuck should they be expected to pick up the tab either..

The Euro goes cap in hand to the chinese for money...they in turn will want something huge in return for lending..I mean they got a race of what 1.5 billion to feed..nope..I say..Oiiiiii stavros..sell ya car..ya medallion..work...harder..produce something the world wants, pay ya taxes..or get the donkeys back out..

Yours is not to reason why, yours is but to do or cry.

Edited 3 Nov 11, 9:17 PM by xAdamx

It's not the fault of the Greek people, just as the current banking system collapse isn't the fault of well, all the people. Banks and politicians fucking it up by turns. As with most parts of the world the vast majority of Greeks are just ordinary folks trying to earn a decent living. But yeah, Greece as a country done fucked up.

The EU pressed them into the Euro, and their government loaded their pockets with hard currency and pinged some around to the people to keep them sweet. But it was never money they could pay back. Nobody could. Not us, not the USA, not the Italians, nobody can pay off their debts any more. Not that they typically bother, I mean it's usually a given that a country will be run in some debt.

As for not bailing out, well that's possible. I don't think the bail outs as proposed help Greece too much anyway. The term 'bail out' is banded around like it's a magic ray of sunshine that fixes everything. It's not. What seems to be worrying a lot of folks is that Greece could very easily just default and not pay off any of the debt. I mean fundamentally if the Greek economy collapses completely then nobody gets any of their money back.

The reason that the Germans should pick up the tab is that they fucked everybody by dragging countries like Greece into the Euro. The Euro has benefited the German economy massively, because it kept their exports cheap. If Greece was not in the Euro right now they'd be fine, devalue the currency, eat some inflation, but they'd be okay and they wouldn't be taking out the whole of Europe like a busted set of fairy lights. Germany and France between the two of them lead the Euro charge, luring barely viable states into a trap, chaining them to a currency they could not control, so they could profit.

I think the Germans should pay for this fuck up, because it's their fuck up. And Angela Merkel ought to have to apologise on her knees to the whole of the rest of Europe for her and her stupid country laying waste to the continent for a third time.

And yeah, I'm overstating the point a bit there. But this was a preventable disaster. This could have been dealt with years ago before the crisis reached these proportions, hell it's not like people couldn't see the numbers going up and up and up and up. Any of the major Euro nations could have said, "Woah there, isn't this all getting a bit out of hand." But no.

What really needs to happen now is all the Euroskeptics, mostly Tories (stopped clock right twice a day etc), need to throw a big, "WE TOLD YOU SO!" party. Because this is pretty much exactly what everybody who didn't want to go into the Euro said would happen.

The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cartoon/...

Anyway... Seems like Greece is up to its neck in debt, paying tax is pretty much optional and if you suggest cutting public spending they riot.

Greece either needs to suck it down or leave the Euro (and possibly the EU too). I just hope it doesn't end in military rule (again).

My name is Vince Fox. I had an accident and woke up in 19-fucking-73. Am I mad, back in time, or in a coma?
Hello, just pissed meself. It's a coma.

http://empressm7.uboot.com/ http://www.socialkink.com/empressmartine Vampire, pro/lifestyle ts dom/switch.Ageplay mummy/aunty/AB,medical play,domestic,energy, outdoor specialist."Welcome to Downturn Abbey.I do not talk it,I do it! Now bend over,now!

No, you're the first.

Wow. EM must be the best market economist in the world!

and all this time i was thinking sock puppet...

...It seemed like a good idea at the time...
http://chopmusic.co.uk/ . . . http://www.brumbazaar.co.uk/ . . . http://www.londonalternativemarket.com/

Well I not! If greece crisis had headed in the direction it was going,then the first thing you would see is a rise in price of some of the goods greece exports like olive oil. It would then have the same parity in price as italian olive oil for example.As it is greece has pulled back from the abyss and the referendum has been canceled. There will now be a coalition government and the greek prime minster will resign,once this plan is done.

http://empressm7.uboot.com/ http://www.socialkink.com/empressmartine Vampire, pro/lifestyle ts dom/switch.Ageplay mummy/aunty/AB,medical play,domestic,energy, outdoor specialist."Welcome to Downturn Abbey.I do not talk it,I do it! Now bend over,now!

Gosh, move over Keynes and Stiglitz, Martine is here.