multilateral or unilateral? (96)

^Thunder^
@For_Sale_And_Wanted I.C's own Exchange & Mart| Thunder-Pix/TiinaK|

Nope the cry you can often hear is "itbach-al-yahud " - Arabic for "Slaughter the Jews" . The same is in the Arabic graffiti even in the UK

Why do you think Iran is developing nuclear weapons (OK Israel has them but as , like the other nuclear powers, as a weapon of last resort )- I have no doubt that if they ever build them and the means to deliver them they will be launched at Tel Aviv

^Thunder^
@For_Sale_And_Wanted I.C's own Exchange & Mart| Thunder-Pix/TiinaK|

Edited 20 Sep 11, 11:18 AM by x_Thunder_x

Thanks for your view, please tell us which of the facts I distorted

'There's no such thing as a dirty book... it's just the way you read it" Alex Harvey

Can't be arsed to go through line by line - I'd refer you to http://www.informedconsent.co.uk/posts/314527/0#... - from which you, and others, can work out your distorted version of history and the area that, under the League of Nations Mandate, Britain named that area Palestine.

BTW as a side point, not covered so far, the West Bank (of the River Jordan)was never intended to be part of a Palestinian state. Until Transjordan (as it was called then) in conjunction with other Arab states attacked Israel in 1967 it was part of Transjordan and they have now abandoned it. Transjordan attacked and retained East Jerusalem when they attacked Israel under Glubb Pasha (the British General of the Arab Legion in 1948) - Before 1967 BTW Jews were not allowed to visit Jewish Shrines on the West Bank (including the remains of the Temple)

Part of ANY settlement must be, if the West Bank is part of any future state, freedom of religion (including the stopping of the stoning of Jews praying at the wall) - remember it is the IDF who protect Christian pilgrims going to Bethlehem

There can be no settlement whilst an unfriendly state (on the West Bank) is 20 miles from the sea (and Tel Aviv)

and at the moment there are TWO organisations - 1 running Gaza who oppose a Jewish State and 1 on the West Bank who at least are making peaceful noises

^Thunder^
@For_Sale_And_Wanted I.C's own Exchange & Mart| Thunder-Pix/TiinaK|

Edited 20 Sep 11, 12:17 PM by x_Thunder_x

The idea of a 2 party state was created in UNGAR181. The map is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UN_Partition_P.... It doesn't appear to include the west bank as part of israel. Can you clarify 'never indended' to include 'by whom'?

ETA: to, perhaps, the naive eye, the current Palestine is a subset of the 1949 armistice lines, in turn a subset of the land proposed by the UN.

And all men kill the thing they love, By all let this be heard, Some do it with a bitter look, Some with a flattering word, The coward does it with a kiss, The brave man with a sword!

Edited 20 Sep 11, 2:27 PM by Attitude_Adjuster

Autonomy so rightly earned should never be usurped.

Own the peace.

As I type I reach out my hand, so as you read, you are then touched.

@Ethics_Gradient : Those borders are completely unenforceable. I wouldn't give too much credence to the BBC on Arab-Israeli relations; they have a notorious anti-Israel bias, which is a pity.

Should a parcel of land ultimately be given to the Filistini, then something encompassing the 5 ancient 'King-Cities” and then over past the Egyptian town of El-Arish would be historically apt. Perhaps they will be successful hoteliers – the beaches are beautiful. But Hamas, along with all Iranian aggression in the entire region, has to go.

The Golan is non-negotiable. The Syrian intention is to cut off Israel's water as soon as it regains control. The West Bank ditto, although I like the Jordanian plan to refill the Dead Sea with Red Sea water back to its original volume.

The only way forward is to embrace the positive but be very aware of the politically-manipulative murderous intentions of many neighbouring states and organisations in the area.

"He took a single sip of her pain and found it exquisite"

That's side stepping the question. I pointed out the original UN mandate, which includes the west bank under Arab control, contrary to Thunders assertion. I didn't say the original UN partitioning scheme was a sound choice.

So the follow on question, where does Israel derive its legal entitlement to land within its own borders as it sees them?

And all men kill the thing they love, By all let this be heard, Some do it with a bitter look, Some with a flattering word, The coward does it with a kiss, The brave man with a sword!

Just back from my son-in-law's funeral & am in no mood this evening to give a detailed response and I have a full day tomorrow

However I will come back on the partition plan you brought up in due course (one of several plans discussed). You might ask what right had the allies to occupy Germany, Austria & Japan after WWII.

Israel defended its borders in 1967, pushed Transjordan back to the River Jordan, took the Golan & pushed Egypt back to Suez. After a peace treaty with Egypt Israel returned Sinai to Egypt. If Israel can trust those on the West Bank I'm sure, with adjustment, the West Bank can be used as a basis for an Arab/Moslem state.

One thing in the plan you mentioned. I've always thought that, like the Vatican (and like post war Germany & Austria with the allies), Jerusalem should be a separate state with freedom of religion for ALL (including the stopping of stoning of Jews on the wailing wall)

In the meantime maybe YOU can point out where you disagree with my potted history of the Middle East for the past 2000 years

^Thunder^
@For_Sale_And_Wanted I.C's own Exchange & Mart| Thunder-Pix/TiinaK|

Nothing's much changed then eh?

The silky-smooth soothing voice of reason and logic. (You WILL feel much better and speak more sense while very securely tied-up...)