What legal protections? (58)

The first is that whilst people may sympathise in general, the issue of collar-wearing is the wrong one to fight: the second, more radical, is that some people seem a bit antsy about those in the lifestyle wanting ANY protection at all.

Apart from asking how widespread the second view is - do people really think it OK to lose job, home, family simply because of one's exual lifesyle? - i would also ask how people think that legal advance might happen?

One approach, from consistency, was explored by the Law Commission about 15 years back. They highlighted the inconsistency of laws that permit, say, boxing, but not spanking and suggested that the law simply adjusts to permit all forms of consensual violence (within limits).

Its the cleanest approach - and one that our legislators seem least likely to go for.

There is the Mosley approach, which seems to be bearing some fruit, in the realms of privacy. Though that may be overtaken soon by the backwash from the News International affair.

Human Rights would be the Spanner approach: but they are likely to be impaled on two quite separate issues. First, the immense sums needed to take their argument forward to the ECHR...and second the possibility that the government may claim this as an area where it is allowed to derogate.

And then there is the Equality Law angle: either arguing for a rights-based approach, in which discrimination per se becomes outlawed (a long slow haul) or seeking bdsm to be allowed protected characteristic status within the existing framework.

If the latter, then eventually there will be cases (including last week's) in which bdsm will need to set out its stall as being a belief system (cause that's the only avenue open to it right now).

So-o...do people believe the law needs to change to accommodate bdsm? And if so, in what way?

jane xx

Personal: http://janefae.wordpress.com
Political: http://sexualitymatters.wordpress.com

It might need the Considered Opinion of A Queen's Counsel,unless any Queen's Counsels deign to give their Opinion for free??

Mentioning the Equality Act is a bit rich on a site where events which treat the genders differently are routinely advertised and accepted. If BDSM aficionados cannot treat themselves equally why should we expect an outsider to treat them equally?

Rohypnol means never having to say "Would you like another coffee?".
Religion: It makes good people do bad things.

It is little to do with the law and much to do with social opinion about D/s relationships. If it is about sex then really no one should care, its the fact that for many it is more than that which causes the issue.

There is a simple way of justifying dismissal of people involved in BDSM by discussing the idea of 'bringing the profession into disrepute' if BDSM stopped being a dirty subject then that would put paid to that.

Simply changing a law isnt enough.

I think it is very interesting that this case has come about because a woman in what many may see as a very "traditional" and "caring" profession, a 'socially responsible" profession, has chosen to take what to many may seem as an "amoral" stance.

This is about fear, surely? A woman has openly admitted to an unconservative way of lifestyle that may, possibly, have sexual connotations. And she has admitted to being submissive and, oh gosh oh golly, possibly enjoying that and wanting to make a commitment within that context.... run for the hills!

I agree quoting the ER act is possibly problematic on this site, and to try to enforce it would do nothing surely but bring in restrictions that could cause issues - do we really want our "kink" to be openly policed and held up to that level of accountability? But who can REALLY say, all told, what is ABSOLUTELY consensual and what isn't?

Emotional interaction is always complicated after all.

I feel, that this is about symbolism to a great degree (I don't like/understand/agree with yours... so take it off as I am in the majority) and opportunity (after all we really have heard very little about the case other than the "collar" issue), but also think it's to a certain degree about the fear of allowing a woman her own sexual choices and freedom

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"How can I tell that the past isn't a fiction designed to account for the discrepancy between my immediate physical sensation and my state of mind?" - Douglas Adams, (1952 - 2001)

Two wrongs don't make a right. It would be absurd to suggest that someone into BDSM doesn't deserve protection under a law, simply because other people into BDSM don't follow it.

I dislike the clubs with gender differences, and I'm sure I'm not the only one, so I'm not sure in which sense they are "accepted". Do you have a link to any of the clubs advertised here? I'm sure I recall an occasion where such a club wasn't allowed to advertise on IC, due to violating the equality law because of treating men and women differently...

Sign the Consenting Adult Action Network's statement

To say I was a tad offended was to put it somewhat mildly.

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"How can I tell that the past isn't a fiction designed to account for the discrepancy between my immediate physical sensation and my state of mind?" - Douglas Adams, (1952 - 2001)

It is illegal to advertise different prices for the genders, but acceptable on here to post plugs for events which charge different prices, but don't mention it on here.

You asked for examples:

Nemesis on here, prices you pay.

Heathrow Dungeon Zone has an event listing, but you have to look here for their discriminatory pricing.

Men have to be vouched for, women don't.

Rohypnol means never having to say "Would you like another coffee?".
Religion: It makes good people do bad things.

This has been known for a long time,that certain events etc advertise on here,have been exploiting loopholes in the law of land. One day these loopholes will be blocked up and they will no longer be able to use them. For now they are geting away with it but time is runing out for them.

http://empressm7.uboot.com/ http://www.socialkink.com/empressmartine Vampire, pro/lifestyle ts dom/switch.Ageplay mummy/aunty/AB,medical play,domestic,energy, outdoor specialist."Awsome! But whose's look after the country's security? The FBI pull double shifts!"

what loopholes?

its pretty standard practice for all manner of club - gay, straight, vanilla, kink, cis, trans - to operate differential pricing. Its certainly not restricted to bdsm.

I did a survey of this a year or so back for a mainstream mag, and its everywhere. In one case, i found a bizarre policy of £10 for single women, £30 for single blokes and £20 for trans. Huh?

In almost every case, it is pure and simply unlawful and open to anyone to challenge. If you wish to challenge this sort of policyt, tis simple.

1. ask the management to change it, citing the EA relevant section.

2. give them warning

3. toddle down to your local court and start an action in your own capacity: cost £30.

its not difficult and many places, once they know you are serious, have a rethink.

jane xx

Personal: http://janefae.wordpress.com
Political: http://sexualitymatters.wordpress.com

I don't think many people at all are discriminated at work because of their BDSM sexuality. There is an impact in how some people are - I am submissive and that means I work in a different way i think from those who don't but that I would not except legal protection for that, just as I would not if I were shy or had a dreadful accent, couldn't spell, were fat or did not have the qualifications for the job.

The only legal issue where there is a problem is that if you like to be spanked etc very hard then you may technically break the law even with consent. Given I don't like it too hard sometimes I feel that legal protection is a good thin although I doubt anyone on here would agree with me.

I do think we should have limits to what you can consent to to protect people who are mad or silly.

I agree it is anomalous you can seek brain damage through taking part in stupid sports like boxing but if you want to be caned until you bleed you might break the law. I don't find in practice a lot of consenusual BDSM is prosecuted however. I would certanily support a slight change in law so that a it more extreme consensual sexual violence could be lawful.

I also would repeal the law against extreme images although I doubt there is any popular support behind repealing it.