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| mia |
on Thu 11 Aug 11, 8:30 PM to mia's blog.
This is just the musings of a saddened human, saddened by her fellow humans. Hashtag riot.
I see it started with a peaceful protest, which could have been a protest about anything, meaningful or meaningless. The message soon got lost and rightly the family involved in the original protest condemned the following violence.
So then we saw night after night of ridiculous amounts of violence, arson and looting. If we looked at some pictures we only saw young people. If we looked at others, we only saw black people. If we looked further we saw only poor, underclass people. And anyone who has seen the news and cases tried in courts today will see that all these groups were represented, as were older people, white people, people with good jobs and all matter of people. So how do we explain? How do we fix this? How do we stop it happening again? We need to look at what drove these people to do this. Looking to explain doesn't mean we need to let these people off and nor does it give rational excuse to them for their poor life choices.
I think one of the main drivers for this was greed. This saddens me the most. There have been people on TV and in news reports who said they were doing it to sock it to the rich, to get things they didn't have to pay for, because they didn't have a job... Well the solution can't be to make everyone rich - DUH. Perhaps the solution could be to deamonise greed and make heros out of hard working people who value what they have earned. Rather than glorifying HD TVs and iPhones, can we glorify how people come to have these? Or those that don't have these things, but who are hardworking and skilled?
I think another force for these riots was a lack of fear and respect. I group these two together for a reason. I think respect should be for everyone and the notion of having to earn respect saddens me more every day. We are all humans and i think we all deserve respect, manners, the rights to live and be safe. I think this should (and does) come to many very easily, probably more easily than you'd imagine (how many of us thank the bus or taxi driver, despite them having 'just done their job'?). But i think there should also be levels of fear if we don't stick to these social norms of respect and manners. If i tell a child to fuck off, i should (and do) fear him to cry, or return the favour. If i tell a 6ft drunk to do the same, i should (and do) fear i could get an earful, a slap or worse. If i tell a police officer to fuck off, do i fear i'd get arrested? I don't know. The thought of doing such a thing i can't even comprehend. I wonder how many of the rioters swore at the police? If we replace my potty mouth with robbing of goods, ruining property, etc, i wonder about the similarities.
I think then that it is our responsibility that people, of all ages, gender, race, social and economical background know the consequences of their actions. Perhaps people didn't realise what hefty prison sentences came with burgalry or assault? Perhaps these court cases will send a mass message that there are consequences and you should be scared to brake the law.
Maybe we've been too soft on our society? Maybe we need to stand up to those people who swear, who rob, who punch, who set things on fire. Maybe we, at all our different levels, have to be the parents, teachers, police and take responsibility for social morals and fear? I don't know.
I imagine some will disagree with what i've written here. That is fine - i don't have the answers. Replies don't start hidden and anyone is welcome to comment. I will let anyone know if i think their comment is better on their own blog, as i always (but thankfully rarely) do, so no one feels censored or owt.
Hi humans.
x
| 11 Aug 11, 8:36 PM Taintedinnocence UK(S), 6 yrs |
criminology research shows that most offenders don't think they will get caught, ergo consequences have little effect on them at the time of offending. I think it is more about a culture of why anyone would think it was ok to do these things. We need to look at the social causes of these riots, rather than just criminalising those that joined in (although I am NOT saying that that was ok and there should not be consequences) Victim/offender mediation is shown to be the most effective - therefore this is probably the way forward - link each offender with a victim so to speak, so they learn about the effects of what they have done and can make amends | ||
| 11 Aug 11, 8:42 PM mia UK(M), 4 yrs       |
Perhaps this needs challenging - i think showing the results of the court cases could help change this attitude. We often see programmes like Crimewatch or Police Camera Action or whatever, but we don't see the follow up - or the guilty being called on it. Maybe we need to?
I think this will help with those involved in these riots, making those that did it think about their actions and those that suffered given a chance to air their grievances, but i don't think this will help other people not do similar things in future. I'd really like to see public apologies by those involved, if they're genuine and not just for fame or fortune. Would people be so quick to commit crimes if being caught and being made to face consequences was a much more likely scenario? Personally, i don't think so, but of course, i don't know. x Quick Lynn, run, they're sex people | ||
| 11 Aug 11, 8:48 PM Miss_Hardy UK(E), 5 yrs |
Ok I'm going to try and reply without rambling but I'm never very good at typing out all the things going on in my brain. I was born and raised in North East London, I'm from a typical working class family. My mother is an immigrant to this country who worked every hour she could to provide for myself and my brother before and after my fathers death. The area I am from was hit by looters and is a stones throw away from Tottenham (specifically Ferry Lane) where Mr Duggan was killed. The area is a very poor one and as far back as I can remember there has been tension between young locals and the police. Yet in the last ten years or so things seem to have gotten worse. In the last couple of years funds for young peoples services have been cut about 80%, there aren't many job opportunities and the education standards are low. My brother and his family live on a fairly rough council estate in North London where you seldom see police walking around and the residents police themselves as best they can. I have a pre teen nephew who I would class as a 'good child', as many of his friends are yet it's much cooler to be seen with the newest technology than it is to be polite. A lot of these kids come from good families and the parents do the best they can with limited means but the kids seem to idolise local gangs. I've always been aware that things are less from ideal round there but the events from the last few days have truly shocked me. I'm worried for my nephew, I'm worried for his future. I'm proud of where I am from and how I was raised but a lot of the kids now are so full of rage and kick out at the system at every chance they get. Something definitely needs to change but like yourself I can't even begin to come up with answers. "You're so cute when you're frustrated, dear Yeah, you're so cute when you're sedated, oh dear" - Interpol - PDA Edited 11 Aug 11, 8:51 PM by Miss_Hardy | ||
| 11 Aug 11, 8:54 PM Elohims_jay UK(B), 7 yrs |
I do not think custodial sentences will work ... They are almost seen as a badge of honour and put yet more strain on the system and tax payer. I do not think taking away benefits and/or social housing will work .... These folks have shown they are prepared to steal and loot so this will just give them another reason to do so. My personal "solution" ? ... Enforce responsibility. If someone has taken hundreds of pounds of items then they lose the same from their own possessions ... Game consoles, electronic goods, cars ... if they feel it is acceptable to take what they want then how can they object to having it done to them ? If the person involved is a minor then the parents pay in the same way .... I firmly believe the parents are responsible for their children and to try and blame the social services, education system or everyone in general for lack of parental responsibility is, imo, wrong. Then take the little darlings involved, dress them in pretty pink tracksuits and send them onto the streets to perform civic duties and clean up under the laughter and finger pointing of society. Show them that there is consequence to every action and they are not going to get a "there there" type reaction and sent of to some nice holiday camp to help them forget their problems. "You and you alone make me feel that I am alive. Other men it is said have seen angels, but I have seen thee and thou art enough." ~ George Moore | ||
| 11 Aug 11, 8:59 PM Taintedinnocence UK(S), 6 yrs |
I don't think crime watch or anything else really has much effect. If people have relatives or friends that they have seen get caught, or even have themselves in the past and still do it - they will continue to. The way to address it is the reasons why they offend - and of course our current government is busy trying to cut all the services trying to address these issues. I hope this will be a wake-up call. Don't get me wrong, I don't think this sort of behaviour is ever justified. But we have to understand where it comes from and how to change our society. For some of these people, it may be too late - their behaviours will be rather entrenched by now. Society attitudes may effect whether or not people do this sort of thing - but not whether they think they will get caught and what the consequences are. We have to teach people to develop a conscience so that they don't do it because they think it is wrong, not because they think they will get caught.
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| 11 Aug 11, 9:02 PM Once_Upon_A_Time 17 mths |
General conflagrations such as wars follow an inverse power law, apparently. Meaning that you get small ones fairly frequently, bigger ones less frequently, and really big ones (such as world wars) every now and then. The bigger they are, the less frequent, the smaller they are the more frequent. But the point is, you always get them sooner or later. I imagine 'civil' disturbances follow a similar pattern; they go in cycles. So it may be that such things are inevitable, sooner or later, whatever we try to do about it. (The same thing applies to economic crises, as it happens.) Slightly depressing thought, but there you go. | ||
| 11 Aug 11, 9:29 PM Johanna UK(L), 8 yrs |
Just my opinion though i realise it will differ from many. I think it is far far too late for consequence and action. Greed and opportunity is what appears to have fed most...and i don't believe it is over yet though i sincerely hope i'm wrong. The majority of those involved seem to think society owes them something....they are not happy with not having to pay rent, council tax, vet fees etc etc...they want more for nothing, everything given to them on a plate...despite never having worked a day in their lives. There is so much more i could say but for now i'm just so sad...sad and also ashamed that i live in this broken country.
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| 11 Aug 11, 10:52 PM Masterstoy UK(N), 10 yrs |
What Elohims_jay says, especially the pink tracksuits. | ||
| 12 Aug 11, 9:30 AM othyim NL, 3 yrs |
As an outsider (not living in the UK, but have lived there), I have a different POV on the underlying reasons of what happened, and what should be done. 1) Political/sociological. The UK, still, very much, is a class society. At least compared to other Western European countries (and I lived in several so I have experienced the differences), the social mobility between different classes is significantly lower in the UK, than in any other country I have lived in. Various governments (in lets say, the past 30 years) were unable to, through positive action, break the class boundaries that still are very much a part of British society. So, they managed to breed a generation of have-nots, not so much by denying them access to social housing, free education, basic needs for food and healthcare, but by not giving them a perspective, or hope, to ever be able to break out. 2)Psychology. The majority of the rioting kids probably lack a rudimentary developed conscience, and the empathy that is a provision for that to develop, as general character treats. (for who, in a sane state of mind, would rob an already bleeding person?) The sad thing is, that when kids aren't corrected in between the ages of 4 an 10 (I could provide several links on this), a fully developed conscience never will appear (google Kohlberg, amongst others). So: What you have here is a group of adolescents, that has the feeling there is no hope to ever break out of this vicious circle of poverty, a generation that, consequently, is very much looking at the world in terms of "them" and "us", a generation in which the individuals feel they have nothing to lose (for if they had something to lose they wouldnt risk it). As appalling as their behaviour is... as long as there is the general feeling that there is no way out, the masses will always revolt, at some point. Sociological surveys on for example soccer hooligans show evidence of this too. There even is a word for it: "recreational rioting". So perhaps, imprisonment doesnt really help here, for it will not better them, but the opposite applies (a major part of inmates tend to lose the few "normal" things they have, like housing, contacts with family etc whilst in prison). Also, due to the underdeveloped conscience (see above), they will experience "punishment" like any 6 year old will. As long as you can get away with it, there is no inner voice that tells you not to do it. Thus, fear for punishment will not change their POV, but will, in stead, install the feeling of "us" agianst "them" even more. I have NO idea what one should do, in the current situation. I'm only saying, that there must be a reason for all this. I've got this vague idea, that the upper classes/political elite in the UK really dont care at all. There is a reason successive governments have rejected the European Social Charter, the once considered "left" Blair included. Also, there are some very disturbing hard facts, the "elite" (coughs) has chosen not to look at, adress, or act upon, for decades. British youngsters outnumber any other Western European country in almost all aspects of social pathology, from teenage pregnancy (27 to 1000) to drug use, drunkenness to violent crime. I would think, that the UK, as a society, probably is better off looking IN DEPTH at those facts and reasons, and make an effort to change those, than having an (understandable) knee-jerk reaction on "punishment", "they never ever did a days work", "scum", etc, if you want to prevent this happening again.
"Class is the impartial, consistent display of emotional integrity." Edited 12 Aug 11, 12:36 PM by othyim |
