How far would you go to defend your family, home, community from the looters, thieves and criminal gangs wreaking havoc / gadget shopping / trainer shopping over the last few days ?
11 Aug 11, 12:56 AM
Doghouse_Reilly
UK(MK), 6 yrs
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Baseball bat ftw. Under riot circumstances anything within reason goes. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.
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11 Aug 11, 9:20 AM
shit_sub
UK(W), 5 yrs
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i sleep with my old rounders bat under my bed.
more in the hope of attracting passing Doms than anything else though  |
11 Aug 11, 10:40 AM
Lex_Magister
UK(M), 7 yrs
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Well, whilst womaning my impenetrable yet stylish barricade, armed with my tried, tested and very effective weaponry 'Rolling pin and frying pan' I would defend with stoic zeal what is contained within my bit of England, which in truth, the little yobsters would be heartily disappointed with, a pair of knitting needles, a tea cosy and a copy of woman's own are hardly high yield, must have items!
But whilst on patrol, whilst walking my perimeter, there in the back of my mind would be a question? Why should I need to be doing this?
As I type I reach out my hand, so as you read, you are then touched.
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11 Aug 11, 11:29 AM
Kapital
UK(NW), 4 yrs
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I'm going all Home Alone on those rioters. Diacritics: IC's taboo.
Edited 11 Aug 11, 11:30 AM by Kapital
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11 Aug 11, 11:33 AM
striped1
UK(YO), 11 yrs
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Lush_Life wrote:
Defending your family, home, community
How far would you go to defend your family, home, community from the looters, thieves and criminal gangs wreaking havoc / gadget shopping / trainer shopping over the last few days ?
Would you fight fire with fire ?
Would you dial 999 and wait ?
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About the only positive thing I've seen emerging from this mess has been the number of people starting to use their own initiative to clean up and defend their own communities.
However, this has also produced the biggest tragedy of this whole shambles - the three men in Birmingham who were killed while trying to defend their community.
I think my answer to "Would you dial 999 and wait?" is that I would certainly dial 999 first and then do what I can to defend myself, my loved ones and my property by whatever means necessary.
I know an American woman whose parents live in a village in the Louisiana bayous. The nearest cops are a minimum of two hours away, so they have no choice but to look after themselves. As you can imagine, they are well tooled up - everything up to a military assault rifle, I believe.
But in this country, our ability to defend ourselves has been taken away bit by bit and we've allowed it to happen in the interests of "safety". Only now do a lot of people realise what a bad mistake that was.
So what we're reduced to is forming some kind of local Dad's Army to fend off criminal gangs. Those communities that pull together to defend each other, including their elderly and vulnerable, stand a much better chance than those who just "look after No 1". But it's still not without its problems, as the tragedy in Birmingham shows.
What is more worrying is that these looters were mostly just louts in hoodies. If the authorities were caught on the hop by amateurs like this, how are they going to cope with organised gangsters with real firepower if things take a turn for the worse in future? |
11 Aug 11, 1:24 PM
Doghouse_Reilly
UK(MK), 6 yrs
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striped1 wrote:
Lush_Life wrote:
Defending your family, home, community
How far would you go to defend your family, home, community from the looters, thieves and criminal gangs wreaking havoc / gadget shopping / trainer shopping over the last few days ?
Would you fight fire with fire ?
Would you dial 999 and wait ?
|
About the only positive thing I've seen emerging from this mess has been the number of people starting to use their own initiative to clean up and defend their own communities.
However, this has also produced the biggest tragedy of this whole shambles - the three men in Birmingham who were killed while trying to defend their community.
I think my answer to "Would you dial 999 and wait?" is that I would certainly dial 999 first and then do what I can to defend myself, my loved ones and my property by whatever means necessary.
I know an American woman whose parents live in a village in the Louisiana bayous. The nearest cops are a minimum of two hours away, so they have no choice but to look after themselves. As you can imagine, they are well tooled up - everything up to a military assault rifle, I believe.
But in this country, our ability to defend ourselves has been taken away bit by bit and we've allowed it to happen in the interests of "safety". Only now do a lot of people realise what a bad mistake that was.
So what we're reduced to is forming some kind of local Dad's Army to fend off criminal gangs. Those communities that pull together to defend each other, including their elderly and vulnerable, stand a much better chance than those who just "look after No 1". But it's still not without its problems, as the tragedy in Birmingham shows.
What is more worrying is that these looters were mostly just louts in hoodies. If the authorities were caught on the hop by amateurs like this, how are they going to cope with organised gangsters with real firepower if things take a turn for the worse in future?
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In the LA Riots, over six days, in one city much smaller than London, fifty three people were killed. In the UK we've seen four deaths.
That's why it's better that people not be armed.
I mean would you seriously want the Nazi thugs stomping around Eltham, who in the name of defending their community actually attacked police, carrying guns?
You can own a baseball bat or a big knife in this country, either of those is enough to deter a looter. Or kill one if deterence doesn't work.
It's very clear that escalating the violence does not work to stop rioters anyway. Look at the Greek situation, water cannon, tear gas, plastic bullets, and the riots continue. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.
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11 Aug 11, 1:57 PM
xAdamx
UK(SE), 9 yrs
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Doghouse_Reilly wrote:
Baseball bat ftw. Under riot circumstances anything within reason goes.
Strange that I should write this back on the 1st August and I am glad you haven't changed your opinion.. right is right and wrong is wrong...social deprivation they called it for the excuse to go out robbing and burning it...I say..it's plain fucking criminality..and I am pleased to hear communities coming together to defend them selves agains't the scum.
Not sure prick seeks prick will agree though.
Clodmin wrote:
xAdamx wrote:
Clodmin wrote:
xAdamx wrote:
Nothing like a good ol fashioned row to clear the head and provide entertainment for the IC massive LOL
You are of course right the post should be now in the weblog..my words re informed debate came out wrong..though I did choose informed debate, because the artical in the newspaper that I was reading came under " current affairs "
I googled Joyce McKinney..wow was it really back in 1978 when she tied a morman to a bed in chains...sigh I was ummmm26 years old lol...and was fasicinated by the story..talking to male friends who were all saying...what..some woman chains you to the bed has sex with you..and ya complaining mate...how times have changed.
As for me being a fascist..the other poster decided I was describing myself...I have spent over 40 years supporting a social experiment orchestrated by left wing policy makers who couldn't beat our our nation by force of arms, so set about creating a kind of orwellian big brother/camera watching/divide and conquer route/uni lateral disarm/one state/one army/one police force etc etc
I have served on the walls of west facing east germany 1975 that defended a nation that now gives our national idenity and freedom away to scared to give real punishment to deserving criminals. We now have a society that gives a smack on the wrist for violent muggers, kids that shoot other kids because he/she comes from another post code who will jump on the " it's our uman rights innit " to have a comfy dvd player/blanket in our cells...Remember when that oh so nice Mr Blair said 5 years for knive carriers.
I won't change my stance..I say give pain until the violent thugs make the brain change in their attitudes..do violent crime..mug old old women/men ya going to get beaten black and blue. Rape women, children or choose to kill, your are going to get lethal injection.
Try walking the streets at night, how many old people won't...then tell me " your lets chuck other peoples money at it, treat the crims with respect for they will learn" is working..it's got worse mate over the last 40 years..not better.
If I am medieval in my thinking so be it..if I am your so called fascist..I say bring it on..because I won't let the bastards, the piss heads who think its okay to stone cats/dogs/swans, abuse the weak, the hard working givers in my town go un noticed...or unpunished..
ETA..spelling.
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My hero.
By day, he's a mild-mannered, semi-literate something-or-other. By night, he's Barely Intelligible Man.
Faster than a speeding building, able to leap tall bullets in a single bound.
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semi literate, barely intelligible I maybe...but I still wouldn't walk past as you were being battered by some cunt who doesn't like spelling b winners.
http://www.theunknownwarriors.co.uk/#/silent-sca...
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Every point you make, you do so by invoking terrible crimes that have nothing to do with what we're discussing. Unless you think some twat that allegedly groped a woman in Singapore is the same as these OAP-murdering devil children you keep mentioning.
But the real reason for this is that, if you create the strongest imagery, and position yourself in opposition to it, then in theory nobody can oppose you in the debate. Unless, that is, they are articulate enough to distinguish between your arguments and the sensationalist non-sequiturs you use to back them up.
You also make grandiose statements about how you won't stand for it any more.
The implication here is that everyone else will stand for it, therefore you are better than them.
You have no idea whether I would help you if I saw you being beaten up (hint: the odds are getting longer), but if you tell me what my personality is, then you get to attack the personality you want me to have.
I didn't call you semi-literate because of spelling mistakes, but because you barely understand what you are doing with your words.
And, you may find it interesting to note that, as the most vocal person on this thread against violence, you are the only one who seems to be hungering for it.
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Yours is not to reason why, yours is but to do or cry.
Edited 11 Aug 11, 2:04 PM by xAdamx
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11 Aug 11, 3:01 PM
striped1
UK(YO), 11 yrs
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Doghouse_Reilly wrote:
striped1 wrote:
Lush_Life wrote:
Defending your family, home, community
How far would you go to defend your family, home, community from the looters, thieves and criminal gangs wreaking havoc / gadget shopping / trainer shopping over the last few days ?
Would you fight fire with fire ?
Would you dial 999 and wait ?
|
About the only positive thing I've seen emerging from this mess has been the number of people starting to use their own initiative to clean up and defend their own communities.
However, this has also produced the biggest tragedy of this whole shambles - the three men in Birmingham who were killed while trying to defend their community.
I think my answer to "Would you dial 999 and wait?" is that I would certainly dial 999 first and then do what I can to defend myself, my loved ones and my property by whatever means necessary.
I know an American woman whose parents live in a village in the Louisiana bayous. The nearest cops are a minimum of two hours away, so they have no choice but to look after themselves. As you can imagine, they are well tooled up - everything up to a military assault rifle, I believe.
But in this country, our ability to defend ourselves has been taken away bit by bit and we've allowed it to happen in the interests of "safety". Only now do a lot of people realise what a bad mistake that was.
So what we're reduced to is forming some kind of local Dad's Army to fend off criminal gangs. Those communities that pull together to defend each other, including their elderly and vulnerable, stand a much better chance than those who just "look after No 1". But it's still not without its problems, as the tragedy in Birmingham shows.
What is more worrying is that these looters were mostly just louts in hoodies. If the authorities were caught on the hop by amateurs like this, how are they going to cope with organised gangsters with real firepower if things take a turn for the worse in future?
|
In the LA Riots, over six days, in one city much smaller than London, fifty three people were killed. In the UK we've seen four deaths.
That's why it's better that people not be armed.
I mean would you seriously want the Nazi thugs stomping around Eltham, who in the name of defending their community actually attacked police, carrying guns?
You can own a baseball bat or a big knife in this country, either of those is enough to deter a looter. Or kill one if deterence doesn't work.
It's very clear that escalating the violence does not work to stop rioters anyway. Look at the Greek situation, water cannon, tear gas, plastic bullets, and the riots continue.
|
That's a rather clumsy set of unrelated comparisons in your attempt to score points. It's not at all clear from that statistic just how many of those deaths were caused by rioters, how many were caused by citizens defending themselves against rioters, how many were killed by police, how many rioters had firearms, how many householders defending their property had firearms and were killed, how many householders defending their property didn't have firearms and were killed etc.
What I was actually saying was that as British householders can't legally hold firearms, although criminals have no trouble acquiring them, then their choices are rather limited. They can call 999 and hope for the best, they can pretend they're Charles Bronson with a lump of wood in their hands (good luck with that against an armed gang) or they can try to stick together to defend each other, as some groups did in London.
The EDL in Eltham were indeed a bunch of tossers who got drunk and then started fighting the police. But you somehow forgot to mention the Turks and Sikhs who came together to defend their communities in North and West London, and the people who did similar things in Birmingham.
So on balance, I still think a community-based approach is more likely to be successful than your "look at me with my baseball bat, I'm Charles Bronson and Chuck Norris rolled into one, I am" approach. But good luck with it all the same.
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11 Aug 11, 3:29 PM
Doghouse_Reilly
UK(MK), 6 yrs
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striped1 wrote:
That's a rather clumsy set of unrelated comparisons in your attempt to score points. It's not at all clear from that statistic just how many of those deaths were caused by rioters, how many were caused by citizens defending themselves against rioters, how many were killed by police, how many rioters had firearms, how many householders defending their property had firearms and were killed, how many householders defending their property didn't have firearms and were killed etc.
What I was actually saying was that as British householders can't legally hold firearms, although criminals have no trouble acquiring them, then their choices are rather limited. They can call 999 and hope for the best, they can pretend they're Charles Bronson with a lump of wood in their hands (good luck with that against an armed gang) or they can try to stick together to defend each other, as some groups did in London.
The EDL in Eltham were indeed a bunch of tossers who got drunk and then started fighting the police. But you somehow forgot to mention the Turks and Sikhs who came together to defend their communities in North and West London, and the people who did similar things in Birmingham.
So on balance, I still think a community-based approach is more likely to be successful than your "look at me with my baseball bat, I'm Charles Bronson and Chuck Norris rolled into one, I am" approach. But good luck with it all the same.
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See, when it's one person with whatever comes to hand defending their house, that's one thing. But when everybody does it, as we saw with the Turks, Sikhs and Muslims in Birmingham, then it's a community. See how that works? If the individual does not act, then the community, being the sum of many individuals, also does not act. And for a lot of communities the defence wasn't organised, a lot of people just walked out their front doors when the trouble started, saw that there were others from their street doing the same thing, and suddenly, as if by magic, the community is defended.
The idea that criminals have no trouble acquiring firearms is presumably some sort of a joke? Have you not read the reports of the Duggan shooting that triggered all this? There's this guy, a criminal, an armed criminal, and what's he packing? A replica that has been modified in somebody's garage or shed to allow it to fire home made ammunition. Yes, it's a gun, yes it's deadly, but it's a lot less deadly than a handgun you'd buy from a shop, hell it's less deadly than a knife. Unreliable, inaccurate, and yet the best he could find. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.
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11 Aug 11, 3:38 PM
Lex_Magister
UK(M), 7 yrs
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Would anyone like the use of my rose tinted specs? There really brill! They make the 'Big society' that has finally arrived look so appealing!
As I type I reach out my hand, so as you read, you are then touched.
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