BDSM and abuse (93)

Very well worded distinction. I tend to use 'desired' vs. 'compliance' in that instance, but 'craved' vs. 'tolerated' is perhaps better.

Abuse on the scene is endemic, it's absolutely abysmal, and one of the reasons I simply don't enjoy munches or clubs anymore and generally stay away from them. There are certain characters whose attitude to women in public is entitled, presumptory and borders on harrassment and abuse -- and, worse! -- half the room is already aware they've caused immeasurable pain and suffering (and not in a sexy way) in private and they're still lauded and accepted! And of course, if I question or challenge patriarchal dickhead behaviour I'm just the "angry feminist", apparently deserving of more verbal abuse. I can't be around people like that without wanting to rip them a new one, and I can't stand the acceptance; that this is simply 'par for the course' if you're into the fetish scene. If you're a woman and submissive/masochistic, you just have to expect and accept it. I refuse to. Sorry!

Like mia, my tastes are pretty much exclusively at the 'extreme' end of BDSM. However, this indicates nothing about how 'abusive' such activities are. The distinction is the difference between what is desired and craved, and what is simply coerced, tolerated and complied with out of fear.

Railing against the tyranny of 'common sense'.
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Thankyou for pointing this out. I hate it when people assume that abuse only happens in their particular profile of an abusive couple.

I've thought about this for a number of years - in the vanilla world that is.

My approach is to encourage the couple's community to actually look at all relationships while they are happening and not treat them as something special, sacred and secret. I say the couple's own community because I wouldn't want mono people judging poly relationships, or vanillas judging BDSM relationships, or anti-gays judging gay relationships. Despite all the possible problems I think that transparency is the key.

I don't think there is any difference when looking at a BDSM relationship except that we are probably more skilled at accepting that other people might *want* things different to what we want ourselves.

But what is the solution? What action can be taken?

I'm not sure any action can be taken other than

a) discuss the relationship with those concerned. b) encourage them to separate if the relationship is abusive. c) provide support to aid their separation if one or both decide to separate.

It might sound like I am trivialising things but even in cases of domestic violence and rape there is significant will in society to not discuss it and assume it never happened.

Please remember that abused people don't often realise they are being abused until afterwards. They have been trained to think things are *their* fault. This is why I think discussion with third parties has to be the first step.

I do think we should proceed with caution but I do not think we should ignore comments/complaints just because they come at the end of a relationship. If we hear similar comments made about the same person by different people then we should give those comments full consideration. Similarly, if one person makes the comment then we should consider that comment fairly in the light of what we have witnessed about their individual behaviour and anything we actually saw of their relationship.

SusanCrane

It was @SheilaBlige who said that, but it doesn't matter.

I think that rather than rescue someone we have to keep the discussion open and accept that abuse does exist with BDSM world, as it does everywhere else, and make it clear to everyone that nobody except the abusers expect us all to turn a blind eye, which hopefully will prevent, or at least minimise, this culture of closing ranks and/or immediately poopooing someone's genuine concerns and fears.

Saying that we have to be careful not to get this mixed up with YKINOK.

I realise it isn't possible because of the AUP (and understandably so) but it would be good if there was the ability for individuals to post their concerns about their own relationship anonymously for advice, or even just to sound off, without the need to expose who they are (who the other one is etc etc).

"If no sexual offence is being committed it seems very odd indeed that there should be an offence for having an image of something which was not an offence," Lord Wallace of Tankerness
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Look no further, I started a thread comparing D/s with abuse and got shot down immediately by several people. The question was triggered by My Lady, who had just entered the kink world, and was wondering how the two are separated, and was then told she was "arrogant" to even contemplate trying to understand. She is now, understandably, rather reticent to post anything at all.

We both found this a most unpleasant way to react to a genuine question, but fortunately we now have many friends on the scene who are perfectly intelligent and rational people, willing to openly discuss things like this, and we also recognise the hot-heads who will rise up to attack anything that doesn't fit precisely with their own views.

I'm not going to get involved further, as I have nothing to add, but it is good to see that this thread has been taking a very sensible and considered line. It is clear that many see some relationships as abusive, and separating these from the genuinely mutually satisfactory ones can at times be very difficult.

be a switch, double your fun

Edited 28 Jul 11, 3:36 PM by Lj_switch

Sorry - have corrected the quote now.

x

Quick Lynn, run, they're sex people
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I agree with this.

There is the group The Problem Page which i believe can be used annonymously.

x

Quick Lynn, run, they're sex people
@Modified_Bodies
@O_and_P
@LGB_Forum

I cannot comment whether this happens in F/m relationships, as I have never been in one. But it does occur in M/f relationships. What is interesting is that the first blog you posted a link to really focused in on emotional abuse, although later posts on the thread talked about physical signs that someone has been hit etc. A lot of people are not familiar with the concept of emotional abuse, and if you are not familiar with it you cannot name it.

I guess to start out with, it's less about feeling afraid to speak out, and more about feeling that what you are going through is normal in a D/s relationship, particularly if you are fairly new to D/s or to a more serious D/s relationship. So you have to keep on with the relationship while listening to lists of the thousands of things that you are doing wrong, and why you are such a crap sub. It's sometimes only with the benefit of hindsight and distance (in time) that you realise you were being abused.

Also some people view emotional abuse as less serious somehow than physical or sexual abuse, as if there is some weird scale of acceptability of abuse, and maybe that is why it is not talked about so much on the scene.

That's very true. Emotional abuse can't be seen but the scars run deeper for longer.

"If no sexual offence is being committed it seems very odd indeed that there should be an offence for having an image of something which was not an offence," Lord Wallace of Tankerness
The Anna List Clinic: The Patient Files - restricted access