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| PhoenixAmber |
on Sat 23 Jul 11, 9:56 PM to PhoenixAmber's blog.
I will start by saying that this may turn into a train wreck, it could get some strong reactions, in fact I hope it does, not because I love drama but because I think debate is healthy – when it's respectful.
This blog was triggered by a thread on Fetlife. This is in no way about that event (outdoor suspension in Leeds). This is not a personal attack on any one person.
There seems to be a current trend of people within this lifestyle who are very much out and proud, who are expressing themselves in different ways and though different mediums (such as the event), some of these people sound almost political, or at least a little like budding BDSM pride organisers. None of which I have a problem with.
I do feel that those this general trend seem to have a 'get over it' attitude to those people who are not comfortable with being so open. I was quite concerned by the attitude that seemed to come across as 'if you don't want to be outed don't go to clubs', and the assumption that if you are not screaming your lifestyle from the rooftops then you are obviously ashamed of it. – This was implied so I'm sure that it will be argued that I am paranoid and seeing the negative.
Hmm I do seem to be descending into a rant, which was not my intention.
My point was around social responsibility, in my experience our munch is a place where people can come who are out and proud, in the closet, or somewhere in between and meet in a safe, non threatening environment to make friends and get information. People coming to our munch, particularly new people may rely upon our integrity to maintain a certain degree of discression. I believe that for the sake of our members, the venue, and the other customers it is the munches' responsibility to ensure that nobody is made to feel unduly uncomfortable.
I worry a little about the link between the person at the centre of this thread providing kit for a lot of the clubs in the North East and the number of North East events organisers who jumped in to defend him. It may be that they are all good friends and in total agreement with him, someone did suggest that the OP should not be annoyed too much because of the kit situation (quite possibly in humour). It is possible that the events are protecting their assets, which may be cynical of me.
A club may not be able to function without kit, but I am concerned that the out and proud, gun hoe, if you don't like it stay at home attitude of many people not just those affiliated with clubs will mean that only a certain section of the community will attend events. That would seriously hit club numbers especially for those who cater for a lot for newbies. Perhaps the next generation of newbies will all be out and proud and we are moving into a pride type period of kink, perhaps I'm fast becoming old school (LOL) I worry where those who don't want to make a show of it, and those who don't fit that group will go to meet and learn.
At the end of the day people have very real fears about being outed, it doesn't matter how silly other people may think those fears are, or how small the likelihood of it happening is, those fears are real and the consequences for some people may be horrendous. I would also point out that it everyone's right to choose when, how, and with whom he or she shares things about themselves. Going to a club chooses to allow some people to know. There are varying degrees of 'out' and it should be personal choice where to sit in that.
I do believe that a certain respect, and courtesy from people and a bit of social responsibility within the lifestyle we belong to would balance peoples right to express their kink openly, proudly and freely with the need to protect those who would want to be discreet, or who would feel uncomfortable with such open shows. – Perhaps it's as simple as forewarned is forearmed, then people can make informed choices. I am part of a munch management team, I go to clubs including wildcats which is in a strip club. I am not out and proud to my family or my work by choice, I make the choice that I am happy to be seen entering and leaving a strip club in civilian clothing, or a gay bar for a munch or club. I would not however by happy to walk into a club with 'BDSM' in lights above the door. That is my right as much as it is others right to open and go to a club that screams what it is.
I wonder if this trend of 'loudly out and proud' continues to build, the 'feel' will continue to be that only a certain type of kinkster is acceptable. For example the; get over yourself because the secret isn't that important, or I'm out I'm not ashamed of my kink, If your in the closet stay indoors, or the similar I can do what I like and if you don't like it don't come to events attitude. – (These are not quotes and not personal to anyone. They demonstrate a theme.)
I know we will never get rid of the 'true' folk in whatever guise they come, who believe their opinion is worth more than those who disagree, or their rights are valued higher, those who think everyone who disagrees with them is crazy and those who agree are good, sensible folk. – Life has them everywhere. I simply worry about the internal move away from respecting diversity within the lifestyle moving the future into a different world of 'elite', a them and us scenario.
| 23 Jul 11, 11:16 PM aka_kelly UK(YO), 2 yrs |
As organisor of wildcats, i'll state our policy.
We respect everyone's right to privacy and do our utmost to ensure we provide a safe , friendly enviroment for our guests, be they out and proud or not.
Had we known about the art gallery stunt in time, we could have and would have diverted our leaving guests out via a different exit. We do feel we as a club and as individuals have been unjustly and unfairly attacked over this stunt which was ill timed as folk were leaving. As we have stated, we will not be held responsible for the actions of people away from the club, and we will do utmost to protect our guests anonyminoty at all times. Proud submissive of Ms_Crimson, free to play with permission of Mistress |
| 24 Jul 11, 12:00 AM PhoenixAmber UK(YO), 4 yrs |
Your party line has changed slightly then. On Fetlife you were saying that it was far enough away from the club and that it drew attention away from anyone leaving. At no point did you say that had you known you would have diverted people and so it came across as support. You did say that what people do outside is not the clubs responsibility which is true and I believe that the critsism (in public at least) was about the person doing the stunt and not the club but I may have misunderstood. "Ha ! I laugh at danger and drop ice cubes down the vest of fear." |
| 24 Jul 11, 12:22 AM aka_kelly UK(YO), 2 yrs |
The 'party line' has always been and always will be the safety and piece of mind of all our guests.
The fetlife threads were getting completely out of hand and a hasty statement put together (during tea break at work on phone) so yes, some detail was missing, it was an attempt to kill a thread that was out of hand. Proud submissive of Ms_Crimson, free to play with permission of Mistress |
| 24 Jul 11, 12:33 AM PhoenixAmber UK(YO), 4 yrs |
I will state that I have been to Wildcats on more than one occasion and have found it to be a freindly and well run event - like I say, it's not personal to anyone, or any club. "Ha ! I laugh at danger and drop ice cubes down the vest of fear." |
| 24 Jul 11, 8:12 AM Dungeonmaster_mups UK(DH), 2 yrs |
I agree with a lot of what you say, and the way you have writen this blog is not to make a personal attack on myself as others did in there writings, one of your main points is that every one should be allowed to choose if the want to be out and proud, my point was and still is that I agree totally with this so why is it not ok for me to do as I want, live and let live, if its ok for others not to stand up and be counted which I don't have a problem with why should others be allowed to have a go at me. As mentioned I do supply the equipment for the club and others, so why would I do any thing to endanger the event, wouldnt this be shooing myself in the foot, I have never and would never do any thing to out any one, again this would be very counter productive to my business. And the fact remains if any thing what I did in Leeds and will be doing again in other areas of the city did not draw attention to the club, here we are two weeks later and still no mad national press release's, I personaly feel the whole thing as been blown out of proportion and should be left to die a death, or is it all going to come to the forefront every time I do an outdoor suspension, maybe not as I do three or four every week, well not unless some one from the scene happens to notice us, as all we get from vanilla members of the public are comments of praise and interest. I am not trying to cause anyone any problems infact one of the main complaints was how we were doing something illegal, I can assure you that what we did was not illegal and we even have a licence to perform suspensions in several cities based on the fact it is a form of modern art, there is no connection to BDSM in any way. So as mentioned we do this almost daily and you will see our suspensions in various city centres, we did not expect people from the club to join the public on the day as there was only ourselves and one other rigger involved and it was not advertised at the club that we would be performing the suspension outside the art gallery. We will take great care in future if we suspend in the area not to coincide with start and finish times of any BDSM events, we do apologise if we caused anyone any upset as this was never our intention we are simply doing something we enjoy. |
| 24 Jul 11, 10:23 AM PhoenixAmber UK(YO), 4 yrs |
For the record my opinion of the event echos what you said in your last paragraph. There was nothing wrong with what you did, or where you did it but when you did it. Half an hour later would have saved a lot of the trouble.I was at Wildcats, I didn't see it or know that it had happened until after the event. If you want to suspend a fully dressed person in areas of Leeds and have a licence then rock on, enjoy yourself, I hope that you keep the live and let live attitude in your life and your planning. You have as many rights to be out and proud as others do to stay well hidden and I do think that this incident got blown out of proportion which is always a possibility on the weboards. I think peoples' attitudes of 'if you can't stand the kink don't come to the clubs' is what really irritated me from the thread. You mentioned (on Fetlife)the pride movement in gay/leasbian lifestyle which as you point out was a sucessful movement and did a lot for acceptance of that part of society. The danger with a kink version of that that needs to be taken into account is similar the what happened with the pride movement which is that the initial push only shows a certain type of person. In the gay community it was the 'pink' camp type males, the leather aspect and butch lesbians, I am sure that there was work in the background to safeguard those who didn't want to be part of pride and I am just highlighting that the same needs to be true in kink. I would be more than happy for the lifestyle to be more acceptable and as a Munch we would inform and signpost people who wanted to take part in anything like that or ways to get involved. I would simply caution against that being built upon the demonisation of those who do not wish to be as active. *edited for typos. "Ha ! I laugh at danger and drop ice cubes down the vest of fear." Edited 24 Jul 11, 10:53 AM by PhoenixAmber |
| 26 Jul 11, 8:46 AM crystaltips UK(S), 5 yrs |
I think I am in the rare position of agreeing with both sides here. I think the susepnsion was not something that would particularly shock vanillas and could easily be taken as performance art. I have however been to a munch where I was horrified to see a bare bottom spanked outside the venue and draw a group of vanillas - some of which looked very young. So maybe I'm sitting on the fence - I am reasonably open about my kink to close friends and family but do not want to be out and proud to everybody, I also think there comes a point where it is wrong to non-consensually force kink on the general public. I also understand that this is about my personal line and others may feel it has been crossed at a different point. |
