reposted blog due to aspects of BDSM and law (66)

Following many years of participating in the work of the Spanner Trust and fielding all manner of inquiries and responses to legal issues it is a discussion I have been having with myself for a few months.

I would hope that most people are aware of both the trust and the fact that the law has decided that you can't consent to your own assault which is the basis of many of the legal actions brought against people in connection with SM but I also feel there has been a loss in the understand of the link between peoples actions and potential affects.

We are all too aware of someone who has had a relationship break down under less than amicable circumstances to hear one side or both continue to argue things out and often in ways which is completely inappropriate to adults. Sometimes this has in the past resulted in someone being outed at work or allegations being levied by the aggrieved party. I like many have found myself in this type of situation in the past and although I don't give details such as names and times it does happen.

I am also aware of people who have had unwanted legal attention from something that they wrote which is taken out of context and often it is something that they would take back if they could but once is out there in the ether of the internet the potential has been laid.

I covered this in the scene survival guide at a recent LAM workshop but it is an important enough message that I felt the need to blog it as well. If you make a comment or a threat that could potentially be taken as reason for a legal investigation the police are duty bound to investigate it as if it were a crime.

In some cases these communications covers issues which are far more unpleasant than a threat to violence some of which are labelled as looking to test limits and boundaries. Well I hate to say it but if you ask something which is not legal you should expect to be pulled on the issue or at least that you could be investigated.

I would also remind people that it is often not the court case which does the damage; it's the reports in the local papers or when they turn up at the most embarrassing or inappropriate moment to talk to you. Regardless of if the matter is dropped later once the investigation has started the damage is often already done.

This can also be the case of people experiencing play remorse or even attempting to get back at their ex by reporting them for something that they consented to at the time. Once you open Pandora's box you can't put the lid back on it and no matter how nicely you ask the issue has to be investigated by the authorities.

I would hope that much of this comes under the heading of common sense but as many people new to the scene experience an initial heady intoxication at all the fun and new options I think it's a vital message that needs to be discussed and educated on. After all that is said and done we have enough pressures against us within society to be adding to them ourselves.

London Alternative Market - the place to be on the first Sunday of the month
www.MasterCosmic.co.uk

Cool – but I have a genuine question ….....

This is entirely hypothetical – but you'll see whare i'm coming from …..

“If” someone on here asks for advice about an aspect of play that could be “construed” as assault, or “life threatening” - this could be something as simple as breath play – or as complex as using drugs (anesthetics included, chloroform etc) …... does our discussing these matters leave us open to a charge of collusion, should we be discussing this stuff at all – and if we don't – does that not then leave the “curious” more vulnerable.

A simple thing such as a question on “cutting” or “branding” can fall foul of the law – especially if someone admits to having it as a speciality, or offers it as a service.

As well you know – my speciality is singletails, and sure, I can “perform” without leaving a mark ….... but as a well know American whip man once said when asked “where would you never hit someone with a whip” - he replied “On camera”.

To “hardcore” the question – let's take “branding” - taking on board what you are saying – should this be a taboo subject ?

Ever wondered who the devil comes to for ideas ?

Or even write something on IC and you can use the @dark_play forum if it's not permitted on the web boards as i think a number of people are going to be facing problems soon

This was my thought when reading the OP. This would seem to put us 'all' at risk when we post questions, suggestions or accounts of things we've done on here. all it would take is for anyone-not just the other party involved(?) to report a post to the relevant authority and we'd all be in soapy. Or is it less likely to be investigated/taken seriously if it's reported by a 3rd party?

I think, therefore I fuck up!!
Striving to better, oft we mar what's well. ~William Shakespeare, King Lear, 1605
Better a diamond with a flaw than a pebble without. ~Confucius, Analects

I would suggest that this thread be used as a sounding board for things that people want.

I am very pressurised for time at present due to extreme workload and the truth is that this post took far too long to put together between late night conference calls and having to maintain some resemblance of a life.

One of the the things the trust cant do is advise people on how to break the law as that would be illegal.

I will however collate questions for discussion with the other trustees via email and will post replies either here or as a follow on posting.

As far as workshops and discussions outside of London we do have a request to present at an academic meeting in Sheffield (details will be circulated) but are always open to requests.

David

London Alternative Market - the place to be on the first Sunday of the month
www.MasterCosmic.co.uk

There was a court case in 1996 R v's Wilson where a husband branded his wifes buttocks and he was found not guilty as the judge found it similar to tattooing. Therefore, I would assume it safe to discuss consensual branding here.

Nice things come in small packages...but so does poison!

So indeed you are right - although it's unclear what would happen for a case where a branding was done for pleasure.

In summary. The law is a bit nuts

To the OP - I'm not sure that one should refrain from even discussing such things. Is there evidence that police are investigating such things? (I'm not saying there isn't - but such a thing would be worrying news and not something I imagine many people are aware of.)

Sign the Consenting Adult Action Network's statement

Re Wilson Court of Appeal stated

"we are firmly of the opinion that it is not in the public interest that activities such as the appellant's in this appeal should amount to criminal behaviour. Consensual activity between husband and wife, in the privacy of the matrimonial home, is not, in our judgment, a proper matter for criminal investigation, let alone criminal prosecution."

and

"In this field, in our judgment, the law should develop upon a case by case basis rather than upon general propositions to which, in the changing times in which we live, exceptions may arise from time to time not expressly covered by authority."

http://www.lawteacher.net/criminal-law/cases/con...

Therefore, I assume that until more cases go to court then we cannot know, as a precedent has to be set to make case law. The law is not black and white, but kinda of grey and patchy..

Hey and thanks @emark for saying I'm right this time...

Nice things come in small packages...but so does poison!

The post is drawn from a number of issues that are recurrent over many years and different examples.

As they say any resemblance to a thread or reality past present or future is purely coincidental.

David

London Alternative Market - the place to be on the first Sunday of the month
www.MasterCosmic.co.uk

I think this is factually wrong on a number of levels.

You can't consent to an assault THAT DOES HARM to you. This harm has to be more than merely trifling. So an indication that you had consensually spanked someone or even consensually caned them would not have been enough to launch a prosecution alone.

Internet posting is a relevant issue. If provably traced to you this could cause problems.

The police ARE NOT duty bound to investigate ANY crime. They have discretion as to how to deploy their resources.

You should not EXPECT to be pulled by the police for doing something technically illegal in your private life. The police are only likely to be the slightest bit interested if someone reports an incident to them.

Technically an allegation that a non consensual incident has occurred that after police investigation was found to be consensual COULD be prosecuted if it was found to be illegal. However the prosecution would usually be very reluctant to prosecute a case where the complainant had told serious lies to the police. The police aren't stupid and an allegation involving repeated incidents of spanking is likely to trigger at least queries of consensual sexual activity. However if your kink is punching and kicking your partner whilst drunk if the incident is reported prosecution is likely.

Let's get real. I've been knocking around this site for about 8 years. During that time there must have been at least 1600 play events advertised here. Some have been parties held at premises where two or more Pro Dommes have worked (technically brothels) (though these have not usyaally been advertised). How many have been busted by the police ? None. A big fat zero. Days gone by, yeah, some events were raided by the police. I hate to break it to you all but the evidence is clear - the police do not care about us. They are not monitoring us. They are not planning prosecutions against us. They don't care. If you shove a file full of evidence under their noses, yeah, they'll investigate. But they really aren't bothered. We're not mugging people in the streets. We're not damaging property. We're not stealing. The public doesn't, for the most part, care either. The only one thing that is likely to bring police attention is drug use, particularly Class A's, and particularly then if supply (including sharing or giving it away) occurs. If someone gets seriously injured at an event as a result of what the police suspect is drug related violence that will bring them down upon us very quickly indeed. Otherwise providing we don't generate crime or anti social behaviour reports THE POLICE DON'T CARE !

S.x.

Edited 13 Jul 11, 12:35 AM by Sorceror

Some of them do.. just in a more personal way (in that they're kinky themselves, and so frequent the forums for personal reasons)

(N.B. I'm not a policeman myself)

But yeah, otherwise lots of valid points from both sides.