Summer of strike action? (86)

The irony is that whether or not the Tory cuts plan was sane, a summer of disruptions will break it. We already aren't seeing the growth that was forecast as a result of teh cuts.

I have little sympathy with anyone young on the pensions front - its been obvious for years that the model was broken - have a lot of sympathy with those in their 40's/50's who thought they might scrape by before the sky fell in.

I don't blame people for striking over the cuts in general. Whilst there is an argument that costs needed to come under control, and that there was wasted money in the system, the way its been done is neither fair, nor will result in the desired outcome - a much broader, measured look at public spending and value was needed.

And all men kill the thing they love, By all let this be heard, Some do it with a bitter look, Some with a flattering word, The coward does it with a kiss, The brave man with a sword!

You don't kill the goose that lays the golden eggs, and that goose, in the UK, is public spending. It employs millions, millions more rely on their money. Attacking public spending, the heart that pumps much of this countries wealth around, has profoundly wounded our society.

As for the strikes? Damn good idea. The Tories need to be stopped. We saw after the last time those bastards were in that you can't easily fix what they do. Better to stop them doing it.

The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.

Edited 16 Jun 11, 2:37 AM by Doghouse_Reilly

Interestingly, placed in a different environment, he worked as hard for the customer as I did - the union belligerence was just a workplace culture thing

The problem with modern unions is that, having fulfilled their historic destiny long ago, they exist to maximise their own subscription revenues. This means that their interests are aligned neither with those of the shareholder (or taxpayer), nor of the customer, nor of the employee. One must bear this in mind when considering their actions. The purple prose on TV (I heard a minister likened to Kim Jong-Il yesterday!), is merely designed to bolster membership.

As to the cuts, it's really quite simple. We've collectively been paying ourselves too much compared to our productivity for some time now (that is what a credit-driven boom means, after all). The easy money and the housing price bubble lasted long enough that most union members will have benefited from it, so the "bash the bankers" rhetoric is as dishonest as it is unhelpful. In order to get back on an even keel, we must pay ourselves too little compared to our productivity for a while (however "unfair" that seems). There are two ways to do that: work harder for the same money, or pay ourselves less.

For, in reality, strikes, nowadays, dont really have any influence, they are just a hinderance to the general public. For example, during the last month, I was faced with a public transport strike 3 times...

But will these strikes help the drivers? I guess not. For the government simply doesnt have the money to meet their (reasonable, I should add) demands.

Strikes, thus, become a ritualised dance, that sort of eases our feelings of being treated badly.

And.... the effects, in this time and era, are normally like zilch.

Cause face it: do you really think that ANY government in Europe, at this point, has the luxury to actually meet the protesters demands? Even if those demands are totally reasonable and fair?

Like in Greece? General strike yesterday (and yep, a cut down on your salary by 30% IMO, *is* a legitimate reason to demonstrate/strike). But it will lead nowhere.

For the authorities dont have a choice. Trying to get another loan from the IMF and the EU, in order to save the country from going bankrupt.

"Class is the impartial, consistent display of emotional integrity."

Edited 16 Jun 11, 9:13 AM by othyim

I also think that striking is the right of any section of workers who feel that they have been treated unfairly.

However, I am not sure what is to be achieved here by striking. Although Cameron is doing so many u-turns at the moment that he must be having severe nosebleeds, it seems unlikely that the savage cuts are going to stop.

If the government should be able to find the money to plug the pension gap - is that the right place to spend it?

I really don't know, but if it were my choice, I would look after health and education first.

All the strikes are likely to do are inconvenience a whole lot of people and achieve nothing except cause bad feeling.

What is clear to me is that the entire public sector is in need of a massive overhaul. Dealing with them if often an exercise in frustration - and too many people have become lazy and complacent in their positions.

Are we in for a summer of discontent? Will it be the downfall of Cameron and co, like it was for Callaghan and co?

I can't see it...

Sometimes your as bellicose as you are stupid. Cuts are not being transfered to investment but to clear debt, hence any knock on growth will be years down the line. There are many cuts that were successful, the canadian "bloodbath budget" for one.

What you are seeing in Europe is the result of the single currency. When you have a single Capital system then as a result the wealthier areas have to bail out the poorer, and keep bailing them out until the, usually, asymetric shock has passed. Greece is a corrupt backward socialist shithole and like the USSR is going to have a long tough time of it.

Goose that lays the Golden egg? Hello? Earth to dog house, the state/private sector is a parasitic relationship, hence the private sector is the goose.

The tories exited leaving a sound economy, the last 2 times labour where thrown out they left a pile of shit behind them.

There are two types of right winger. The dishonest and the deluded. Neither should be encouraged.

The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.

It's very modern and fashionable to take unions for granted and to see them as anachronistic and even a little silly. But the fact is they are necessary. If they didn't exist, where they don't exist, workers are treated extremely badly. In some parts of the world you can still get killed for trying to organise a union.

Fundamentally we cannot trust employers to deliver a fair days pay for a fair days work. If only we could. We can't. So unions are necessary. Workers need to be represented, collectively, to have the power to protect themselves. The reason for unions to exist hasn't gone away. As long as there is capitalism there will need to be unions to protect the workers. Otherwise the State has to do it, and oddly enough the same people who dislike unions tend to dislike that too.

The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.

Well... the thing is, that unlike the single currency in the USA, the Euro is, actually, not that "singular". Cause... every government still has a its own responsabilaty for borrowing.

Thus, the euro zone is in a fine mess with this. We are screwed if the week economies start defaulting on their debts, and we are screwed if we keep propping those economies up.

The main reason that the euro and the dollar aren't parallel is that the US controls both its currency and its borrowing, whereas in the euro zone the two things are separate. The currency's value is set across the zone, but each member nation still incurs its own debts based on its own objectives and policies.

In the case of Greece, they suddenly were able to borrow for much cheaper than they ever were before, and they went nuts. But they can't let the value of their currency float to counter economic conditions (such as Greek products being expensive in international markets due to the strength of the euro compared to other currencies), which is what a country would typically do. And so they have massive debt combined with no mechanism for trying to get out of it through normal currency actions.

Whereas in the US, Iowa doesn't look any different to the rest of the world (from a fiscal perspective) than the rest of the US. So, regional economic conditions don't have as profound an impact on the national picture.

I'll be very surprised if the euro zone doesn't lose members in the next few years. Greece is going to be stuck in severe austerity as long as it's tied to the euro, and the nations with stronger economic fundamentals are going to be dragged down as bondholders start demanding more interest from countries like Germany and the Netherlands.

So yeah, we will probably see a lot of strikes and protests all over Europe this summer. Not sure if it leads anywhere though.

"Class is the impartial, consistent display of emotional integrity."

Edited 16 Jun 11, 5:11 PM by othyim