Im currently wandering about the slave/properties perception of loss of their self identity. I suppose as one progress's within a O&P type relationship it stands to reason that slowly their perception of their own self would change, or indeed does it?
Recently I have taken stock of the changes that I have made thus far for my relationship and as things progress im becoming very aware that slowly but very surely im becoming less 'me' and much more the property of my owners… I suspect sooner rather than later I will be a very different person to the one I was and in a kind of a way that is scary… the giving up completely of your own self and your own free will, or do you fight to hold on to your own sense of self?
The long term consequences of this are also on my mind… by giving up ones self and freewill I feel like it will create some form of dependence upon my owners and again this is a scary thought, not so much for the here and now but in the future... but how would one cope after being stripped of self when that relationship ends, if indeed it does.
I hope this makes sense... or maybe im just overthinking and sweating the small stuff... others thoughts on this would be much appreciated 
3 Mar 11, 10:23 PM
mia
UK(M), 4 yrs
  
   |
Oooooh, controversial. I like it! 
Im currently wandering about the slave/properties perception of loss of their self identity. I suppose as one progress's within a O&P type relationship it stands to reason that slowly their perception of their own self would change, or indeed does it?
Recently I have taken stock of the changes that I have made thus far for my relationship and as things progress im becoming very aware that slowly but very surely im becoming less 'me' and much more the property of my owners… I suspect sooner rather than later I will be a very different person to the one I was and in a kind of a way that is scary… the giving up completely of your own self and your own free will, or do you fight to hold on to your own sense of self?
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I know what you mean. The very first time we went away together, i felt almost robotic at one point and got a bit down about it. I felt i had no need to have ideas on anything or opinions, or whatever. I didn't look as i crossed the road even, as i felt there was no need - it was his job. It was all a bit weird for a couple of hours. It wasn't necessarily sad, but was a very odd feeling. I do get this feeling now and again, where it's not even submitting really, but a kind of automatic pilot thing.
| The long term consequences of this are also on my mind… by giving up ones self and freewill I feel like it will create some form of dependence upon my owners and again this is a scary thought, not so much for the here and now but in the future... but how would one cope after being stripped of self when that relationship ends, if indeed it does. |
I don't think 'self' and 'free will' are the same thing though. For example, i can still be me, it's just sometimes, i have to reign in a part of me that i was ready to let loose or something.
I think it's important to remember that most D-types wouldn't want that robot, that shell of a person, not as a long term thing. Otherwise, they wouldn't have chosen you (or been happy if you chose them); they liked you for your personality, as well as all the other things that attracted them to you. They may want obedience and submission, but it's unlikely they want you to be rid of your personality.
It's one of those things that i think can be really scary if you think about it too much, or even just now and again and you realise you find yourself in this powerless relationship. Why not try and think of it as the opposite now and again? In submitting to them and their decisions, you are completely free. You're free from these big and little decisions that once you had to make, as now you've someone to make them for you.
As for being dependant - then yes, that is something i worry about, as i definitely am, although i would hope that friends, and maybe even he, would help me transition from slave to free person if and when that time should arrive.
| I hope this makes sense... or maybe im just overthinking and sweating the small stuff... others thoughts on this would be much appreciated
|
It did make sense. As to whether my reply has or not, who knows?
x If i'm wrong at least i don't matter.
@Manchester
@Modified_Bodies
@O_and_P
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3 Mar 11, 10:33 PM
HiGuysItsMe
UK(S), 16 mths
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Diablos_patience wrote:
Loss of self identity
Im currently wandering about the slave/properties perception of loss of their self identity. I suppose as one progress's within a O&P type relationship it stands to reason that slowly their perception of their own self would change, or indeed does it?
Recently I have taken stock of the changes that I have made thus far for my relationship and as things progress im becoming very aware that slowly but very surely im becoming less 'me' and much more the property of my owners… I suspect sooner rather than later I will be a very different person to the one I was and in a kind of a way that is scary… the giving up completely of your own self and your own free will, or do you fight to hold on to your own sense of self?
The long term consequences of this are also on my mind… by giving up ones self and freewill I feel like it will create some form of dependence upon my owners and again this is a scary thought, not so much for the here and now but in the future... but how would one cope after being stripped of self when that relationship ends, if indeed it does.
I hope this makes sense... or maybe im just overthinking and sweating the small stuff... others thoughts on this would be much appreciated
|
A very sensible and interesting post, patience.
I think so much of the sense of 'loss of identity' is dependant on the individual slave and indeed their Master/s. For some slaves, ownership is not so much part of a loss of identity, as the ultimate realisation of their identity. For others, there may or may not be a loss of self; because it ultimately depends on the form your slavery takes. If your Master desires a slave who is different from the person s/he originally took on, then there will indeed be the need for change. But that isn't necessarily negative; some owners actually want the postive best for their slave, since development of the slave to be the best they can be reflects credit on the owner.
On the other hand, if someone is taken on as a work or sex slave then personal development may not be high on the agenda. And for some Masters and slaves, the arrangement may be designed and intended to depersonalise the slave because that has been mutually agreed to be what both want! Or at least, what the Master wants. Its difficult for me to comment on this, since it isn't the way I normally work. Hopefully others will be able to offer more help in this area.
The long term consequences on you, as slave, of the relationship ending, are things which a good owner will normally take into account. My own understanding is that a responsible owner would not depersonalise a slave to the point at which they could no longer function effectively as an individual being. But there are always exceptions. Additionally, there should normally be a re-adjustment period built into any ending of the relationship if at all possible, coupled with arrangements to help you re-establish yourself in the outside world. But obviously not everyone operates in such a way, and promises may be made which are in reality never honoured. As with so many things in this world, the one person you can generally be sure has your best interests at heart is yourself; and hence, it is always wise to use critical judgement of what you really want and will get. Particularly in regard to retaining or surrendering your basal sense of self. There is no way to peace and happiness;
Peace and happiness is the way.
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4 Mar 11, 9:57 AM
ClassAct2005
UK(N), 7 yrs
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I wouldn't worry about dependence. It's not a bad thing as long as you are able to function if the relationship were ever to break down and have some protections in case that were to happen. I've never submitted to a man who didn't want lively debats (even he can cut things off at any point) and didn't want me because of how and what I am. I don't think you have to become a stepford wife blow up doll. If that were all that was required then dominant men could seek a lobotomised imported bride with no English or a plastic blow up doll from the local Ann Summers shop. Also most men don't have time to do everything. There's nothing wrong with delegating lots of things to a submissive to sort out if she has the time or b etter competence to deal with that side of things.
However I'm not living with a man and my marriage quickly ceased to be D/s so I suppose I can't really say how long term it affects people. |
4 Mar 11, 10:12 PM
Diablos_patience
UK, 6 yrs |
mia wrote:
Oooooh, controversial. I like it!
Weeeeeeeeeell keepin' the cheek in while im still able
|
I know what you mean. The very first time we went away together, i felt almost robotic at one point and got a bit down about it. I felt i had no need to have ideas on anything or opinions, or whatever. I didn't look as i crossed the road even, as i felt there was no need - it was his job. It was all a bit weird for a couple of hours. It wasn't necessarily sad, but was a very odd feeling. I do get this feeling now and again, where it's not even submitting really, but a kind of automatic pilot thing.
As you know im not 24/7 though the amount of contol i actually have over my life is quite a bit, just as it should be  However ive just done a stint of 11 days full on and im amazed at how this has left me feeling, i really didnt want to come back in to the real world... so back to reality with a bang! |
I don't think 'self' and 'free will' are the same thing though. For example, i can still be me, it's just sometimes, i have to reign in a part of me that i was ready to let loose or something.
I think it's important to remember that most D-types wouldn't want that robot, that shell of a person, not as a long term thing. Otherwise, they wouldn't have chosen you (or been happy if you chose them); they liked you for your personality, as well as all the other things that attracted them to you. They may want obedience and submission, but it's unlikely they want you to be rid of your personality.
It's one of those things that i think can be really scary if you think about it too much, or even just now and again and you realise you find yourself in this powerless relationship. Why not try and think of it as the opposite now and again? In submitting to them and their decisions, you are completely free. You're free from these big and little decisions that once you had to make, as now you've someone to make them for you.
As for being dependant - then yes, that is something i worry about, as i definitely am, although i would hope that friends, and maybe even he, would help me transition from slave to free person if and when that time should arrive.
| i dont think the core me will ever change, they are not trying to break me just mould me in to their idea of what a slave/property should be. The transition is difficult and i suspect im at a place where its like i have to take a final leap of faith... to commit to the act of total submission or continue to fight it... im tired of fighting now but the thought of letting go scares me as well as excites the hell out of me.
im thinking about the consequences of what may be once i fully surrender, the having complete faith in another to make those decissions for you, the not being accountable for your own actions etc etc being dependant on another when you are so used to making your own life choices... what if it does go wrong what then... not that it will but yanno... cant be happy all the time I need to stop thinking about it and let go and go with the flow...i knew it wouldnt be easy, it wouldnt be worth anything if it was easy afterall.
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It did make sense. As to whether my reply has or not, who knows?
x
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Your response made sense yes, but after ive wrote this lot out im wondering if ive even addressed your points...lol ~* Raku wa ku no tané; ku wa raku no tané.
*~
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4 Mar 11, 10:22 PM
Diablos_patience
UK, 6 yrs |
DarkEnchantment wrote:
A very sensible and interesting post, patience.
I think so much of the sense of 'loss of identity' is dependant on the individual slave and indeed their Master/s. For some slaves, ownership is not so much part of a loss of identity, as the ultimate realisation of their identity. For others, there may or may not be a loss of self; because it ultimately depends on the form your slavery takes. If your Master desires a slave who is different from the person s/he originally took on, then there will indeed be the need for change. But that isn't necessarily negative; some owners actually want the postive best for their slave, since development of the slave to be the best they can be reflects credit on the owner.
On the other hand, if someone is taken on as a work or sex slave then personal development may not be high on the agenda. And for some Masters and slaves, the arrangement may be designed and intended to depersonalise the slave because that has been mutually agreed to be what both want! Or at least, what the Master wants. Its difficult for me to comment on this, since it isn't the way I normally work. Hopefully others will be able to offer more help in this area.
The long term consequences on you, as slave, of the relationship ending, are things which a good owner will normally take into account. My own understanding is that a responsible owner would not depersonalise a slave to the point at which they could no longer function effectively as an individual being. But there are always exceptions. Additionally, there should normally be a re-adjustment period built into any ending of the relationship if at all possible, coupled with arrangements to help you re-establish yourself in the outside world. But obviously not everyone operates in such a way, and promises may be made which are in reality never honoured. As with so many things in this world, the one person you can generally be sure has your best interests at heart is yourself; and hence, it is always wise to use critical judgement of what you really want and will get. Particularly in regard to retaining or surrendering your basal sense of self.
|
Thank you
I am being required to make many changes to myself to make me more pleasing to my owners, ive changed my name, im working on changing the way i speak, my weight and now i have to remove my nails as they affect my ability to serve... so yes i am being required to change a very large part of me to become something else, which in itself is challenging.
I think because of the changes ive thus far faced, not only to my own self but also to my social life, its natural that i think about the long term consequences of these changes in my life especially if the relationship comes to an end. As it is now i would feel lost without the safetynet of my owners... there has been incidents when i have been out on my own and have been faced with a a challenging sitution and my response was to run away to the safety of them... which i couldnt do but the need within me to do just that was overpowering. As my journey in to slavery deepens i suspect this need will also deepen, time will tell
~* Raku wa ku no tané; ku wa raku no tané.
*~
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4 Mar 11, 10:23 PM
Diablos_patience
UK, 6 yrs |
ClassAct2005 wrote:
I wouldn't worry about dependence. It's not a bad thing as long as you are able to function if the relationship were ever to break down and have some protections in case that were to happen. I've never submitted to a man who didn't want lively debats (even he can cut things off at any point) and didn't want me because of how and what I am. I don't think you have to become a stepford wife blow up doll. If that were all that was required then dominant men could seek a lobotomised imported bride with no English or a plastic blow up doll from the local Ann Summers shop. Also most men don't have time to do everything. There's nothing wrong with delegating lots of things to a submissive to sort out if she has the time or b etter competence to deal with that side of things.
However I'm not living with a man and my marriage quickly ceased to be D/s so I suppose I can't really say how long term it affects people.
|
Have you ever experienced slavery? ~* Raku wa ku no tané; ku wa raku no tané.
*~
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4 Mar 11, 10:55 PM
SirOpenSource
UK(E), 6 yrs
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The op's post I found very interesting and the more and more I re-read it I started to recognise almost a complete parallel to many of the 19 propositions by Carl Rogers, a very influential American Psychologist. His first proposition stated:
1. 1. All individuals (organisms) exist in a continually changing world of experience (phenomenal field) of which they are the centre.
Interestingly the slave does exist in a changing world of experience of which they may be centre but is it continual? Maybe it is the potential lack of continuality that is the problem the op feels she is experiencing?
It could also be considered that the op may believe she is the centre of the 'phenomenl field' but this is in fact an illusion becoming more prevalent as time progresses.
[It could be I'm very tired and this makes no sense at all]
SOS The Titter group - for when you don't feel too serious.
I believe in equality for everyone, except reporters and photographers. - Mahatma Gandhi
www.Londonmunch.co.uk
Londonmunch@hotmail.com - Enquiries
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6 Mar 11, 3:55 PM
Diablos_patience
UK, 6 yrs |
SirOpenSource wrote:
The op's post I found very interesting and the more and more I re-read it I started to recognise almost a complete parallel to many of the 19 propositions by Carl Rogers, a very influential American Psychologist. His first proposition stated:
1. 1. All individuals (organisms) exist in a continually changing world of experience (phenomenal field) of which they are the centre.
Interestingly the slave does exist in a changing world of experience of which they may be centre but is it continual? Maybe it is the potential lack of continuality that is the problem the op feels she is experiencing?
It could also be considered that the op may believe she is the centre of the 'phenomenl field' but this is in fact an illusion becoming more prevalent as time progresses.
[It could be I'm very tired and this makes no sense at all]
SOS
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Well im the centre of my own experience... and yes it is continual, well i think it is with a gradual tightening of rules.
whats a phenomenl field when its at home?
Could it not just be as simple as im being required to change a lot and im scared of what the long term implications of this will be as i rather liked myself as i was? ~* Raku wa ku no tané; ku wa raku no tané.
*~
Edited 6 Mar 11, 3:56 PM by Diablos_patience
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6 Mar 11, 5:19 PM
ClassAct2005
UK(N), 7 yrs
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Not in living with someone, no except perhaps at the start of my marriage.
Diablos_patience wrote:
ClassAct2005 wrote:
I wouldn't worry about dependence. It's not a bad thing as long as you are able to function if the relationship were ever to break down and have some protections in case that were to happen. I've never submitted to a man who didn't want lively debats (even he can cut things off at any point) and didn't want me because of how and what I am. I don't think you have to become a stepford wife blow up doll. If that were all that was required then dominant men could seek a lobotomised imported bride with no English or a plastic blow up doll from the local Ann Summers shop. Also most men don't have time to do everything. There's nothing wrong with delegating lots of things to a submissive to sort out if she has the time or b etter competence to deal with that side of things.
However I'm not living with a man and my marriage quickly ceased to be D/s so I suppose I can't really say how long term it affects people.
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Have you ever experienced slavery?
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6 Mar 11, 9:23 PM
Dapper_Dom
2 yrs |
ClassAct2005 wrote:
Not in living with someone, no except perhaps at the start of my marriage.
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I don't think that's what @Diablos_patience meant... |
