Can Cis gendered people really 'get it'?  (41)

There are so many different sorts of trans person I would be unhappy with a uniform understand of trans person becoming widely acknowledged. I don't so much want any sort of fundamental understanding as acceptance of what I have to say about who I am inside if it ever becomes relevant (which, tbh, isn't that often, although I guess it does happen from time to time). We each have our different paths of experience and identity, and we each have some degree of creative imagination which more or less accurately can make educated guesses about how other people might feel or respond to things. That's about it for everyone, trans or not, and I'm happy with that.

On the other hand I think "I just don't understand" is frequently an incredibly powerful excuse for not respecting people's self-definition, not allowing them access to spaces/rights/etc they're entitled to, and so on. That's a shame, and the other side of why I say "people don't have to understand" because treating each other as human beings with compassion doesn't require an in depth analysis of every single person's motivations and core.

moo

That doesn't mean all of them do...

Nicki

Of course, maybe I just pass really well!

And at work I'm more told off for not going further with dressing and other matters, rather than any signs of problems.

And these are CIS Yorkshire women!

happy volunteer for mind control and robotisation experiments

People should still be treated in fair ways regardless of the personal opinions of others - what we need for that is people to accept us as part of wider humanity and give us access. whether they understand or not. understanding is not necessary.

I'm probably in the camp that says people only truly understand what they experience. This is why trans people need to speak for themselves about trans stuff.

The time some trans people spend doing embarrassing 'awareness raising' I'll show you my scars/traumas/tragic but brave/transperson overcoming adversity and triumphing over tragedy crap does nothing but continue to let people think they have a right to answers about our personal details and bodies - it's mostly freakshowing.

Even where it does raise awareness about the issues faced by - some - transpeople, this does not secure rights or acceptance in itself, it also often tells us nothing about access issues.

people might need to know access issues when relevant and that's all -which is a simple question to the transperson in question who knows what their own issues are.

I think (and learned using disability equality social model) people need equality, respect and rights - we gain that through having a say in the issues which affect us and demanding acceptance and inclusion, not relying on understanding and sympathy. Our rights shouldn't be dependant on the opinion of others 'we are all born equal in dignity and rights' as it says in the Human Rights Act.

Or to use another example, I am a sadist - I can never understand what a pain slut truly gets out of play with me - this doesn't mean I can;t have some brilliant SM with people though if I accept what they say and respect their boundaries. The same is possible with other kinds of people we don't 'understand'.

De

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Yes, they can empathise, but not FULLY understand, never fully appreciate. Can you understand what it is like to have only one gender? To wake up in the morning, and go to bed at night, having spent the day not questioning your gender? cis's do it all the time. In fact, that is normal for them. I know. Inconceivable!

I wrote the following piece to my sister who was having trouble understanding what I was going through. It is the closest I have been able to come to explaining the TS experience in a way someone who isn't TS can understand.

*************

Imagine you were in a car accident at a very young age. Glass from the windscreen hit you in the face, blinding you in one eye and partially blinding the other. The blindness obviously affects everything you do, everyday of your life. In addition, the glass has left really deep scars on your face, so much so that you get stared at whenever you go out in public. You hate looking in the mirror because you find the sight of your own face revolting. You try and cover up the scars with makeup, but they are too deep, too ugly.

Going to school is absolute terror. Being called names and bullied is normal everyday life for you. You have few friends until you are a teenager, then you manage to find a few people that can look past the scars. You even manage a girlfriend or two. They tend to accept you better than you can.

You are a mature adult now. You have lived with this condition most of your life. You would think you would get used to it, but you never do. Every day is just as painful, if not more so, than the day before. You see people around you who are living life to the full, who have no fear of the public or the mirror. But you are not free to live like that. Depression is common place for you, and you consider suicide as the ultimate release from this Hell that is life.

And let's not forget that the blindness still impacts on everything you do every single day. It is always with you. Always at the forefront of your mind.

But, there is hope. There is one surgery that will not only restore your sight back to normal, but will also completely remove the scars! However, this surgery is a one-shot deal. If they get it wrong, there is no fixing it, and there is no going back. Whatever the results of this surgery, you will have to live with it for the rest of your life!

As a Transsexual I do not have physical scares to show the world. But the way it makes me feel when I go out in public, or look at myself in the mirror, I might as well have. Inside I feel just as conspicuous, just as out of place, just as ugly. And yes, like being blind, being TS affects me every day of my life. It impacts everything I do, every relationship I have - from friendship to love. When I sleep, it is in my dreams, and is the first thing I think about when I wake up.

Few marriages that existed before the transsexual starts down this road ever survive the process. And with the departing spouse often goes our children. In some cases we are able to still be there for them, to be a part of their lives. But not everyone is that lucky. Sometimes it's the ex-partner who is so hurt they work to prevent contact with the children. And sometimes the children just don't understand, or are angry at their transsexual parent for changing.

It is hard for our loved ones to understand that this is NOT a selfish act. No one, absolutely no one, takes this path unless the alternative is worse. But once it is perceived to be a selfish act by the people we love, it is assumed we no longer love them. That we care only for ourselves. But I would argue the opposite is true. For many of us, this road we travel is the only way we can keep ourselves alive, and often the only reason we have for living, is the people we love. The very people who turn their backs on us.

**************

No, I'm sorry. Cis's may say, or may even try, but I don't think they ever will fully understand. Even those that spend countless hours counselling us.

Pen

You say Ouch like it's a bad word.
They say Pain is in the mind, as if you could discard your mind and be rid of the pain. I don't know about you, my mind is pretty integral to who I am.

To be fair, even a lot of the straight ones look like butch dykes - I'm always amused at how popular the almost-shaved hairstyle is amongst yorkshire women.

Just following your disability analogy here vis a vis trans people (and the hypothetical tragedy tale of a survivor of a major accident you wrote)...

Lots of disabled people after they've grown into their new lives a bit, even if their differences from the average "non-disabled" person continue to have an impact on their lives, actually adapt instead of sitting mired in the tragedy of it all, possibly because sitting around being tragic when there's stuff to do isn't a viable lifestyle for most people or possibly because having had an accident or an illness doesn't usually say anything of interest at all about a person so most people won't let it define them.

Similarly quite a lot trans people, having gone through the rocky road of transition and the shocked friends and family having their own little struggles learning to live with a change to their understanding of the world too, once all of that is pretty much done with, quite a lot of people, even quite a lot of people who haven't had access to all the modifications they need to feel themselves, end up getting over the "tragic" thing and getting on with just doing stuff.

The story about the fictional disabled person works because everyone has been taught to pity the imagined suffering of fictional (and occasionally real) disabled people. It doesn't pan out so well if you know many disabled people though, they'll set you to rights or tell you to fuck off.

Or mercilessly take the piss: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zJX2ePx0m0&featu...

moo

Edited 17 Jan 11, 9:38 PM by foibey

I appreciate your comments. And where I'm at now in my life, several years past writing that piece, and several years post-op, I am far beyond that stage. I also appreciate it has little bearing on real-life disabled people. But you are missing my point. I wasn't trying to draw a parallel to real-life disabled people, which whom I know many and have the utmost respect for.

What I was trying to do with the piece, and did rather successfully well with my sister, was describe a condition that she could possibly comprehend by putting it into words that she could at least have a partial connection with. Although she herself had not been in a tragic accident, she has worked with many people in many walks of life, and would find it much easier to empathise with that situation. Then, it was a much smaller leap to empathise with my situation.

It is how you teach anyone anything. You start with what they know. Move to the slightly unfamiliar, and then a bit further along to the more unfamiliar. You don't go straight from what they know to the VERY STRANGE. That was the intention of that piece, nothing more, nothing less.

No insult to the disabled community intended. Obviously the character in the piece would not live out their life in that way.

Pen

You say Ouch like it's a bad word.
They say Pain is in the mind, as if you could discard your mind and be rid of the pain. I don't know about you, my mind is pretty integral to who I am.

Its funny you say that, one of those at my previous workplace fits that image perfectly.

But no, none of them at my current place that support me so much would fit that image.

happy volunteer for mind control and robotisation experiments