Selflessness. (28)

Oh he most certainly has control but yes i dont make it easy for him... which makes me sad. Its like an internal battle for me... this is one of the things i was trying establish, is this just me that fights against it (not intentionally so)... if only it was as easy as just saying yes you have control and that be the end of it.

Maybe i just over complicate things... but it is so much more deeper than that, well to me. Hell i've been socially conditioned for all of my years to be a strong independant woman and now im handing that control over to someone, it's scary stuff yanno.

~* Raku wa ku no tané; ku wa raku no tané. *~

Tanos wrote: One way of looking at this is as a set of false entitlements you have carried over from when they weren't false In your situation, you no longer have those rights and you can't put yourself first about them. Disentangling them "cognitively" may help.

This is nail on the head, previously i have been able to dictate my expectations on to other's, in fact if im being honest my needs/wants have been pandered to. Now i cant, yet i still try and i find not being able to difficult. What troubles me is the lengths i will go to to try and get some control despite the fact i so desperately dont want any.

~* Raku wa ku no tané; ku wa raku no tané. *~

C_b and I have discussed this sort of territory. She is an independent, educated woman with a feminist hinterland. She has strong opinions on pretty much everything.

She took a very long time to recognise, for example, that a sex toy was a worthy thing to be and not devaluing in any way.

The doing of hard things has been the making of us: There have been (and still are) things she finds difficult and distasteful to do for me. But, she finds that knowing that it pleases me without measure makes it possible for her to comply.

I think I understand what you mean by selflessness now - but I am not sure you need it. Can't you just say "I am going to make you proud of me" and use your strength and independence to give him what he requires of you?

My goal - to save women from nature (Dior)
Follow me on twitter: @belasarius99

Edited 16 Oct 10, 8:08 PM by Belasarius

Of course i could just say that.... and i would mean it. But i have thought processes going on in my head and these question what it is that im doing, almost like a flight or fight response.

There is nothing i want more in this world than for him to be proud of me. For me to make him happy but it isnt as easy as just saying anything, actions speak much louder than words and its the actions i struggle with at times espcially if they take me out of my comfort zone, then i question them.

~* Raku wa ku no tané; ku wa raku no tané. *~

Surely you can continue to question what you are asked to do, as long as you obey? You can disagree - you can object, you can debate, etc - but as long as you do what is asked then what does that matter: In time, surely his reactions to your obedience will give you the satisfaction you seek?

ETA - if this is a mental struggle you are talking about - if you are doing as required but continue to struggle inside yourself with the rightness of it, then I think you are probably doing as you should.

My goal - to save women from nature (Dior)
Follow me on twitter: @belasarius99

Edited 16 Oct 10, 8:34 PM by Belasarius

You say actions speak louder than [your?] words but this is only so if the words you wish to express do not reflect your inner meaning. Your words are merely one way of expressing your cognitive process as are your actions, which do you value more?

SOS

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For what it's worth... I think that's completely normal.

And that too

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure that expecting yourself to be/become completely "selfless" is particularly helpful... even assuming it were possible...

Of course, if one was able to become completely selfless, to give up all hope of personal gratification, submission would be easy... but I can't help wondering if such a point could truly be reached, it would actually cease to be submission.

To me, submission is all about bending your will to obey another, overcoming your own desires to satisfy theirs... That doesn't mean that your will (possibly to do otherwise) or your desires cease to exist... on the contrary, it is that internal struggle which gives your submission its value... its meaning...

Or to put it another way... if you were able to be truly selfless... if it was easy to do what he asked, whenever/whatever he asked... simply because you had no thought for your own needs... would you even be aware you were submitting?

Maybe I'm wrong... but I don't think it's *supposed* to be easy... which is why we all f*ck up or question ourselves from time to time... but also what makes it interesting...

Cassie x

*If it's not rough... it isn't fun...*

Snipped for focus.

Great post!

My goal - to save women from nature (Dior)
Follow me on twitter: @belasarius99

(snipped for length, key bits in bold)

Cassie you put it very well! Submitting when it is something you enjoy or want to do is easy (it doesn't make it less enjoyable for the D, just easier for the s). But when it is something hard.. that i think is when it is normal to struggle, and when submitting is in some way even more meaningful. Sometimes it is not the things you expect that are hard - like Diablos_patience i have been conditioned for years to be a strong independant woman and to hand over control to someone else is terrifying (and wonderful) at the same time.

A former D asked me to give him control over something i had always done before - i trusted his judgment so i knew i didn't need to worry, he would almost certainly do a better job than i would, but i constantly asked him what he was going to do and why - that was how i expressed my struggle at giving him control. Until one day he said to me didn't i have other more important things to worry about (including pleasing him!), and why did i find it so difficult to let him take care of this and to have him worry about it for me. It was something of a revelation for me, it suddenly felt right to give him control over it (even though i still asked him what was happening!) but i no longer struggled with it. So i guess for some things it just takes more time to be able to relinquish control, and for others it might even be a constant ongoing struggle, but the fact of struggling and overcoming that struggle is what counts surely?

Sorry, bit of a rambly post!

my actions and my words are pretty much the same, but it doesnt stop the thoughts which are constantly questioning what is going on filling my head with insecurities... its a very vulnerable place to be hence the fight or flight thing.

There is no question about what i want and how i see my relationship with him... im 10000% commited to that and all it entails its just getting your head around it all.

~* Raku wa ku no tané; ku wa raku no tané. *~