Selflessness. (28)

A thought on the matter, try to remember a selfless act you have carried out in your life, and then try and then have a really good look at it, can you see something you got out of it, be it an emotional response, a change in stature, or any other response. No matter who we are we contain the selfish gene.

When your selfishness is low and aligned with that of another, it is possible to feel as if your being selfless, but are you really?

Then again, is the feeling of selflessness itself also a selfish thing to strive for?

(note: this may make little or no sense, iv been running a high fever which has only just broken so I'm rambling)

A consensual slave is captive not by the chains you see but by the bonds you don't

Edited 16 Oct 10, 1:24 PM by DeviantDr

This topic was touched on in a recent thread on altruism.

Like DeviantDr, i do not belive anyone is ever truly selfless. A submissive who focusses on serving her D/M is not doing it out of selflessness, she does it because it makes her feel good and she gets pleasure out of serving and pleasuring him and his reactions.

Similarly, outside of kinky situations, I agree with DeviantDr that any selfless or altruistic act does actually result in some kind of "response" for the seemingly selfless or altruistic person - for example, i know that when i give money to charity or help someone, i don't do it just for them, i do it knowing that i will also feel good about myself and it will give me some kind of satisfaction. I don't that makes me selfish, it just means i am aware of my motivations.

I'm of the belief that most actions are committed in some form of selfishness.

What's strange is that I consider myself very selfish, while my friends and Dom consider me the opposite. I think the actions of a person are all down to point of view and subject to interpretation.

But in fact, I wonder if Diablos Patience is actually referring to resistance. My selfishness, which is horribly real, is in how much I will compromise others to serve my Master; hurt the others I love to prioritise him. Which I absolutely will.

I don't have much of a problem with resistance; with struggling to be selfless when it comes to him and pouring my entire existence into his service. That is the emotional pleasure in slavery, after all. The pure expression of love which I need an outlet for.

But when there are doubts, when there is worry and insecurity, you do start to think "why should I?" To resent the demands. Actually, I don't do either of those, but I am guilty of thinking what do I get in return for my complete adoration and service?

In the end, if the answer to that is less than you feel you need, or "deserve", you have a problem. My Master's indifference is the only thing that can hurt me, and the only thing that may cause me to ask to be released when I can't bear it any more.

We all struggle with the selflessness thing though, in our various ways. But there is much that we all do, even if it makes us feel like good people, (and I don't apologise for that) that is praiseworthy, helpful, kind, close to selfless. That keeps me going.

Just keep trying, keep failing. That Sam Beckett quote applies - Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

A tad delirius are we sweetie?

Im actually thinking more on a simple level... where i appear to be happy to do things as long as they benefit me in some way, and sometimes that isnt even intentional and i dont realise until im pulled up on it.

Obviously a submissive/slave should be putting their owners wishes happiness before their own... thats our job.... but... im begining to discover it really aint as easy as you would like to think.

For me its about unlearning the selfish patterns of behaviour ive had since, well since being a child i guess.... now suddenly having to really put someone else other than my children before me is very difficult... and its not just the big things which are difficult, its also the simple things which basically boil down to me putting aside my insecurities/baggage/needs and first making sure that he is happy.

~* Raku wa ku no tané; ku wa raku no tané. *~

I think everyone is a bit selfish sometimes. But equally we are all human, and if we were perfect it would be boring! Its good to have something to keep working at.

An enlightened selfishness, for me, makes for an easier dynamic.

if you are sub, you want to be led, controlled, used. Be selfish!

The D want's to use you and control you. Let him be selfish too.

Your needs are opposite. You don't need to compromise, you get what you need by giving what the other requires.

So,, the action of submission may seem selfless. But, surely, its not - you just ensure you get what you need.

My goal - to save women from nature (Dior)
Follow me on twitter: @belasarius99

But this is my point.... yes i get what i need from giving him what it is that he requires... but, sometimes i dont want to give him what he requires because it effects me in a way which i dont like so then i try to prevent it, thus putting my own needs well before his, and i dont even notice im doing it until he points it out.

~* Raku wa ku no tané; ku wa raku no tané. *~

Then you are not submitting. If you have agreed he has power over you in these areas then why would you refuse - whether you want to do something or not? Surely it's not your right?

And are you putting your needs before his? surely all you are doing is making it more difficult for him to take control from you - it's your needs that you are frustrating.

ETA - this is my personal PoV, of course.

My goal - to save women from nature (Dior)
Follow me on twitter: @belasarius99

Edited 16 Oct 10, 6:50 PM by Belasarius

I agree what you're talking about is selfishness vs selflessness. That's what you're actually seeing, irrespective of the deeper motivations which address your own "selfish" dersires.

(I do broadly agree that altruism is always motivated by getting something, even just feeling better about yourself, but that's another topic.)

One way of looking at this is as a set of false entitlements you have carried over from when they weren't false In your situation, you no longer have those rights and you can't put yourself first about them. Disentangling them "cognitively" may help.

For instance, he's spending some of his precious attention on you, so you have no business reading texts or leaving your phone on when in his presence. (I don't know if that's a helpful example, but you get the idea?)

Great topic

:T:

www.tanos.org.uk
www.bridgewood.org.uk
O&P on IC: Possession. Ownership. Consent. Responsibility. Respect. House. Service. Dignity. Authenticity. Rituals.