This post is on the BDSM Activism web board.
| 29 Sep 10, 9:14 PM janiya 9 yrs  |
Tanos, you were asking about level comparison of 'grov misshandel' with ABH /GBH.The main points as i understand it (swedish aint my first language is:
Grov misshandel / aggrevated assault can consist of life threatening injury, or that the perpetrator inflicted severe bodily injury or serious illness or otherwise exhibited particular ruthlessness or brutality. Rather interestingly the assualt of a child by an adult especially small children, assessed regularly as aggravated assault. I can not find referrence to ages for 100% clarification of this. | ||
| 29 Sep 10, 9:15 PM Attitude_Adjuster UK(N), 6 yrs  |
The things most refereed to in these threads have been caging, humiliation, and watersprouts. Its the psychological damage that seems to play on peoples feelings on this one, not the physical....
And all men kill the thing they love, By all let this be heard, Some do it with a bitter look, Some with a flattering word, The coward does it with a kiss, The brave man with a sword! | ||
| 29 Sep 10, 9:21 PM crimsonsky UK, 7 yrs |
Who's being (hypothetically) sexist now? We've established a real mother wouldn't be too chuffed with the hypothetical situation.Is it the(hypothetical)father? Would he have different views about his (hypothetical) daughter? Or is this just getting silly now?
| ||
| 30 Sep 10, 12:11 AM Londonista UK(E), 2 yrs |
My gut feeling is that this is awful. A previous poster said that their sub and them had a similar age gap but that's really not the same as the sub was 16. I'm pretty disgusted that he got off the hook really. No matter the legality of it all. I'm sure I had an inkling of my preferences when I was that age and got "taken advantage of" accordingly. But that really isn't the point. Informed Consent to me requires some level of maturity. That and consent is what distinguishes it from abuse. | ||
| 30 Sep 10, 12:19 AM Adrenochrome UK(YO), 8 yrs |
Babel Fish *does* 'do' Swedish. Mine was the second post in this thread and I used Babel Fish to translate. | ||
| 30 Sep 10, 5:13 AM AnEnglishMaster UK(ME), 5 yrs |
It's interesting, the number of people on here who say that, whatever the legal position, what they did/felt at 16 or 18 is very different from how they feel "now". And the implication is that what they feel "now" is so very different from how they felt "then". I just wonder how many of the same people have considered that what they feel as they look back in their 60s/70s on their conduct in their 20s/30s/40s may well show similar disconnection with how they feel currently about how they felt in their younger days. After all - if life is about continuing to learn every day until we die (and I think it SHOULD be), why would it seem that what we know NOW (in our 30s-50s, say) is the "definitive" position? Who is to say that your current idea that you know the complete truth now (maybe in your 40s) won't change again before you kick the bucket, and that, as you prepare to journey into eternity, you won't finally gain the ultimate insight, and realise you had it all wrong before this point, and only now, as you ready yourself for shuffling off this mortal coil, you have gained the true, deep insight into what life is all about? Most cultures value the wisdom of the venerable. It is only in the West that "yoof" is seen as so important. Maybe we have a lot to learn about how age and experience teach those who grow old what the really vital lessons of life are in reality. And how we should apply ourselves to gain the benefit of their experiences and the truths they have assimilated. English "It may be that your sole purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others" - Anon | ||
| 30 Sep 10, 8:53 PM emark UK, 9 yrs |
Is 16 too young? Well, in some sense, if there existed an age of consent for S&M of 18, then as long as that meant it was legal for adults, I'd be more than happy. One could also argue that this is comparable to things such as tattoos, where IIRC the age of consent is 18 (although I'd argue it would have to be something with a lasting effect - if we're just talking about caning as in this case, I'm not sure that argument holds). But anyhow, there isn't an age of consent for S&M. She was however over the age of consent for sex. You can argue that she was young, being taken advantage of or whatever - but the same argument applies vanilla sex. Does that mean that consensual sex between adults should sometimes be counted as rape, because the jury decides the woman was taken advantage of? The problem is that a guilty verdict for consensual acts would have repercussions for all adult S&M, because no one would know what cases it was limited to. The same thing applies to Spanner - some of the participants were under the age of consent for gay sex at the time (though, the age was unfairly higher at 21). It's possible that a different verdict may have been returned if that wasn't true - but the problem is that the Spanner ruling still holds precedent for S&Mers no matter what their age. (And the idea that an adult shouldn't be allowed to consent because someone self-harms is nonsensical.)
Personally I think 16 is about right - the law should be there to stop child abuse/pedophilia (which really doesn't apply for 16-17 year olds), not hurt feelings of people in relationships. There are lots of issues in sex and relationships between adults where people can get emotionally hurt or taken advantage of - they aren't illegal either, nor should they be. Sign the Consenting Adult Action Network's statement Edited 30 Sep 10, 8:58 PM by emark | ||
| 1 Oct 10, 12:10 PM Attitude_Adjuster UK(N), 6 yrs |
Well put. I'd say that the premise that someone is mature enough to bring up a child, but not mature enough to agree to be locked in a cage or engage in SM (within the bounds set for adults) is extremely odd. And all men kill the thing they love, By all let this be heard, Some do it with a bitter look, Some with a flattering word, The coward does it with a kiss, The brave man with a sword! | ||
| 1 Oct 10, 9:08 PM janiya 9 yrs |
Just a point that here in Sweden, the age of consent is 15years (however, a side-note that, taking photos /videos of a sexual nature of an under 18 year old constitutes child pornography). Sweden has a 'close in age exception' maybe there should be a 'far apart in age exception' if age is of greater importance in this case than, 'ownership and responsibility over ones own body. Here is a link to the Sweden penal code (1999)in english in it's entirity, though a little on the old side... http://www.sweden.gov.se/content/1/c6/02/77/77/c... Edited 1 Oct 10, 9:09 PM by janiya | ||
| 2 Oct 10, 11:18 PM Beau_Tox UK(CB), 7 yrs  |
No. I don't think it is getting silly. I'm saying that as a generalisation, father who found out that his 15yr old son was fucking a 30yr old woman wouldn't immediately think it a matter for the police due to some heinous crime of abuse. You, a mother, have said that you DO think a 15yr old son fucking a grown woman would be. You are entitled to your (personal) opinion. I just don't agree with that being an "any parent" view. This is admittedly side-stepping the original BDSM issue, having reduced the issue merely to sex. If you're saying that you don't think male and female parents treat each of their offspring differently, then we will have to agree to disagree. If you don't agree that parents also treat their same-sex/different-sex offspring differently (daddy's little angel bringing home her first boyfriend spring to mind), then we will have to disagree even further. |
