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Fem-dom - a dysfunctional world of shite! (84)

This post is on the D/s & M/s web board.

14 Aug 10, 1:56 PM
BigOldHector
UK(DE), 10 yrs

Northern_Phoenix wrote:
I think it could certainly be said that a lot of BDSM is, to some extent, about smoke and mirrors, and the suspension of disbelief, and a large part of that is adopting different 'characters', be that an exaggeration of the person that is really there, playing up certain traits deliberately, or living up to what they feel the fantasy is supposed to be.

Well, obviously I do realise that. And the things people will say and do by way of roleplaying or expressing a dynamic are not something I ever take at face value, having frequently engaged in that same process over a sizeable proportion of my adult life.

And the particular instance that provoked this thread was not even one that would arouse much comment were I to refer to it directly, one that stands out from thousands of similar examples I have seen before, or anything I felt at all incensed or shocked by in itself. All water off a ducks back and par for the course really.

It simply served as a reminder of a much wider issue.

It is precisely because I *DO* read between the lines and see the more subtle implications of things that are commonly expressed in the femdom world, and am aware of much of the dichotomy between the reality that is "off the record" and what it is dressed-up as for the consumption of others (often by subs as well as dommes), that I make the seemingly cynical observations I sometimes do.

Try this by way of an experiment. At any time of day, and as often as it takes to establish a pattern, arbitrarily without any selective criteria at all read the third, tenth, fifth or whatever ad in the F4m personals and DON'T take it at face value. But instead, mentally strip it completely bare of all the "dommespeak" gobbledegook and then ask youself in the most plain-as-a-pikestaff terms "what are they actually looking for, and what's it all about?"

Then go through the web boards. And similarly pick at random the first, third, fifth or whatever contribution by anyone identifying as a domme and do the same.

Then ask yourself - not as "a sub" but as a rounded person, only a part of whom is the desire for a personal relationship to encompass d/s - "Does this person really offer anything I would want to commit to as a real-life relationship?"

Then by way of contrast, consider in the same context from the reverse position any random sampling you choose of M4f and f4M personal ads. And see a whole different world.

I AM THE GOD OF HELL-FIRE!.....but its my lunch break right now

14 Aug 10, 2:00 PM
BigOldHector
UK(DE), 10 yrs

fizzylittletiger wrote:
I also read it as being aimed at someone on these boards

Then you are wrong. The gist of my comments is very general, and the inspiration for them was from someone who is not a regular contributor to the boards or who I've had any contact with online or off, or anyone I individually have any particular feelings about any way or another.

I AM THE GOD OF HELL-FIRE!.....but its my lunch break right now

14 Aug 10, 2:22 PM
BigOldHector
UK(DE), 10 yrs

Intemporelle wrote:

I don't know how far and where any sort of relationship can go with one or two partners so consumed with their wants that they don't see who is in front of them but the fetishistic image they have created of themselves and the one before them, can you imagine what happens when they start seeing another portrait appearing ?!

Very pertinent to the overall point I was making, and something both dommes and subs can all too easily fall into.

And how much worse still if it occurs the other way around? When someone who was loved and appreciated for their whole self and their broader range of individual personal qualities finds themselves reduced to only being recognised for their value as "a dom", "a sub", "a mistress/master" or "a slave".

I AM THE GOD OF HELL-FIRE!.....but its my lunch break right now

14 Aug 10, 2:52 PM
BigOldHector
UK(DE), 10 yrs

Black0rchid wrote:
I hope I have read this right because there were a lot of long words for a Saturday morning following a night with little sleep.

But, is it similiar to the way celebrities who start believing their own publicity then surround themselves with people who will say yes and nobody dares to point out the error of their ways which means, hgihly dysfunctional ways of living and treating people then go unchallenged whilst stimultaneously rotting their soul from the inside.

They can do this because they have money, which gives them power and which left unchallenged can bring out the worst excesses of human nature.

Some fem doms can do the same. It appears to me there is an unequal balance of fem doms to male submissives and in that unequally balanced world maybe male submissives put up with things they should not. Added to the mix, SOME submissives have very low self esteem and may want to be regarded or treated as if they are worthless (something which has always made me feel uncomfortable, both the notion that any 'sub' is worthless and the notion that a dom/me or dom/me should not treat someone with respect as a fellow human being).

Left unchecked, for the personality types that feed on power and power alone (numerous psychological studies have been done which show there is a large percentage of people who when given power will abuse it for no other reason than they can), will end up abusing their power and in a 'market' where some are clamering for attention what is there to stop them.

I have always been uncomfortable with this, but I can see this can happen. There will always be the dom/mes who can hold the power and still treat their submissives with respect whilst maintaining control and the alpha position. Sadly, there will also be the dom/mes that will abuse their position of power and may have a long term detrimental effect on some submissives, especially those who come with already lowered self esteem.

This may happen more in fem dom relationships just because the market for fem dom and male submissives is more unequally balanced, but it can also happen in other dom/sub relationships. I would imagine power abuse by any dom/me is more likely where they are mixing with subs with lowered self esteem and maybe the key is that although we (I included) maybe submissive we should all remember we have rights to respect as human beings and that whatever we act out, unless we are guilty of hideous amoral acts, we are also entitled to respect and kindness in the long run.

We all know people who abuse their power and people who don't. I think in life you will never stop the fact that some dom/mes abuse their power, it is like wishing no country ever has a tyrannical leader again, its not possible. You can however, control your reaction to it, what you accept as reasonable and how you allow yourself to be treated.

As E. Roosevelt once said, "Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent".

An excellent post!

I think you have illustrated many of the points I wished to raise a lot better than I could have myself.

I have absolutely no doubt at all that you are right to suggest the dommes/subs ratio is at the root of the situation we are describing. And more importantly, I also agree it is very much the responsibility of individuals on both sides of the fence how they interpret that situation and allow it to influence their behaviour or not.

I AM THE GOD OF HELL-FIRE!.....but its my lunch break right now

14 Aug 10, 3:05 PM
Northern_Phoenix
UK, 8 yrs

Plinth_For_Her_Feet wrote:
Then ask yourself - not as "a sub" but as a rounded person, only a part of whom is the desire for a personal relationship to encompass d/s - "Does this person really offer anything I would want to commit to as a real-life relationship?"

Strangely, the point I was making was that you can't really judge people from a few posts online, or even the way they act at events, since it might not be a reflection of them as a person, and may just be a persona. If you can tell the difference with 100% certainty, and make such incredibly harsh statements about them, then you are a better person than I.

You say you recognise the subtle implications of things, but your OP didn't read that way at all. It seemed, to me at least, like a very direct attack on an aspect of BDSM that you don't like, with no potential for a middle ground at all. Sadly that's what I took when I read your post and stripped away the scene-speak and gobbledegook.

And I don't need to try your experiment. I don't consider myself to do anything full stop as "a sub", what with me being an actual rounded person with an independant, critical mind. As such, I look at adverts and posts as if they were written by actual people too, and not just the roles they adopt and the conventions they feel a need to follow, or attempt to deliberately set themselves against. But in theory, alongside your question, the other questions I would ask myself would be "Is that person happy doing what they are doing?" and "Does it harm anyone else?". If they are happy and not harming anyone else, it's not my, or indeed anyone elses, place to shout them down for it.

Questions and discussion are always good, but statements like 'dysfunctional world of shite' and 'will never know lasting or sustainable happiness through real mutual appreciation and love of another person and is ultimately destined to be unhappy' are a world away from a reasoned debate.

Phoenix

When a man loves a woman it should be understood,
He would jump into fire if she thought he should.
***Masters Of Reality - Voice And The Vision***

14 Aug 10, 3:09 PM
BigOldHector
UK(DE), 10 yrs

Degenerate wrote:
I dislike it when people draw lines between people who work in the sex industry and people who don't as if we're somehow a different species with different capacities who work, play and live on different terms. In using the term sex industry here, I'm including personal services / performance workers.

Many of us do jobs which involve working for money and to dehumanise professional dominants because they do their job for the same reason is unfair. Some people are better at their jobs than others, people have different styles of working in all jobs except where uniformity is required (eg McDonalds, British Forces, Air Hostesses). Most people work for money not love. People have different kinds of personal relationships too.

I don't believe I did draw any such distinction, and I would certainly have no reason to.

The somewhat unsavoury attitude towards others that provoked this thread was expressed by a PD, but that is quite incidental. The general points raised were meant to apply accross the board, and are actually far more pertinent to lifestyle BDSM than to the sex industry.

I AM THE GOD OF HELL-FIRE!.....but its my lunch break right now

14 Aug 10, 3:13 PM
proccie
UK(HP), 6 yrs

Plinth_For_Her_Feet wrote:
Sense.

The same could also be said of some Doms.

I think it works the other way around too, there are those subs who rely too heavily on the dream of their perfect Dom/me who will through their dominance absolve the sub from all responsibility for their own happiness and will make them happy no matter what.

To be honest all of this is why I have given D/s a miss. Hurt me, be brutal and torment me, yes please, but take account of my feelings too, and to do that you have to take the trouble to get to know me.

I am not an identikit sub ready to slot into the space left by the departing one.

Zen S&M: The sound of one hand slapping.
'()_/)
(>'.'<)
(")_(") < MINE!

14 Aug 10, 4:12 PM
Northern_Phoenix
UK, 8 yrs

TheMarquise wrote:
However, as far as I know the point he is trying to make has very little to do with judging anyone from their posts on line. He also can clearly differentiate between a suspension of disbelief and what people are like outside their role/s. That isn't at issue here.

Given the OP starts with talk of you pointing out things 'on these pages' to him, I don't think it's exactly unfair to draw the inference that he was talking about posts online. But even then, the same holds true in person too: I'm not saying he's unable to differentiate between the two, I'm asking more how he possibly can without actually knowing the person or people he is talking about.

TheMarquise wrote:
You seem quite offended by PFHF's opinion of aspects of the Fem Dom world/scene. Do you find it to be a very happy and positive experience to be a man seeking a female dominant partner?

As I'm sure is clear from my replies, it's not so much his opinion of aspects that bothers me here, it's the nature of the generalisations he makes. As I said my my initial reply, I agree with some of the things he was saying about the way some people on the scene behave (dommes in this particular case), but I just felt he went way over the top in saying it. It's perfectly fine to dislike something, but I think it doesn't help when the criticism is so far over the top it makes people wonder if the person making it has another agenda, or is just overly bitter about something.

But I'll answer your question anyway. I don't really find it happy or positive, but then I don't really find it unhappy or negative either. If anything, I find it frustrating, but that's down to my looking for a person that suits me that I think I would also suit, rather than just 'anydomme', especially as a fair few people on here seem to be looking for a poly situation or 'subs' rather than submissive partners. Not to mention the impact of location. But that's not the fault of anyone in particular, it's just people wanting different stuff than I do.

Phoenix

When a man loves a woman it should be understood,
He would jump into fire if she thought he should.
***Masters Of Reality - Voice And The Vision***

14 Aug 10, 5:03 PM
lisal
9 yrs

Northern_Phoenix wrote:

Phoenix

I'd just like to say Northern Phoenix "well said" on all of your comments on this thread

I was trying to work out how to respond to the OP but you have stated the case far better than I could have done

Bottom line, I guess, is that sometimes it's not what you say - it's the way you say it

14 Aug 10, 6:28 PM
ladybabe2
UK(SK), 6 yrs

I can see what the poster is saying and does so very eloquently. My own experience of everyone l have met has been positive, always treated as equal. But on several occasions over the years l have been introduced to the odd Domme and there attitude to be honest is appalling, they really do believe there own hype! Thinking they are doing you a favour by speaking to you and that awful condescending smile that they treat you too.... Fortunately they are very few and far between and l personally give them a wide berth, don't need the sort of friends who think they are doing me a favour by saying hello... Oh and l have also met the odd male Dom who thinks they are something special too and think its beneath them to be seen talking to anyone who isn't going to make them look good....

Don't make them a priority, when they only make you an option...

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