26 Jul 10, 1:59 PM
Belasarius
UK(M), 8 yrs
  
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Top_Class wrote:
Lush_Life wrote:
This has just arrived....beamed by teletext from a council flat in Bromsgrove:
TheMinistryofBDSM wrote:
TO: ALL SATYRS, FRUITS OF THE FOREST, KINKY CENTAURS, MASSIVELY SUBMISSIVE GIRLS ETC ETC AS TO BE FOUND SLIDING UP AND DOWN THE GREASY POLES OF THEIR OWN SORDID DEPRAVITIES
FURTHER TO RECENT PROCLAMATION 43.2.4, WE HEREBY INFORM YOU THAT WITH IMMEDIATE EFFECT, ALL FURTHER POSTS, BLOGS, MEMOS ETC TITLED OR REGARDING CONSENSUAL NON CONSENSUALITY OR NON CONSENSUAL CONSENSUALITY (OR OTHER RELATED MATTERS) ARE IMMEDIATELY BANNED.
ANYONE FOUND TO BE BREAKING THE ABOVE INSTRUCTION OR THINKING ABOUT BREAKING IT, WILL BE FORCED TO READ THE COMPLETE WORKS OF ANAIS NIN.
ALOUD.
HIS ROYAL EXCELLENCY
THE MINISTER OF BDSM
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I like it when they beg.
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The reason there are four threads so far this topic is that it is important to a number of people.
@Lush_Life, you have already started a comedy thread on the topic here:
http://www.informedconsent.co.uk/posts/279325/
(and yes, I can see the funny side).
Why don't you @Lush_Life and you @Top_Class delete your posts here and repost them on the comedy thread, so the very limited number of posts here can be used by people who are engaged in this debate (this isn't a plea for me: I'm been somewhere just inside the sidelines).
I'll then delete mine.
Fair enough? My goal - to save women from nature (Dior)
Follow me on twitter: @belasarius99
Edited 26 Jul 10, 2:00 PM by Belasarius
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26 Jul 10, 2:18 PM
Lush_Life
UK(NW), 2 yrs
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Belasarius wrote:
Top_Class wrote:
Lush_Life wrote:
This has just arrived....beamed by teletext from a council flat in Bromsgrove:
TheMinistryofBDSM wrote:
TO: ALL SATYRS, FRUITS OF THE FOREST, KINKY CENTAURS, MASSIVELY SUBMISSIVE GIRLS ETC ETC AS TO BE FOUND SLIDING UP AND DOWN THE GREASY POLES OF THEIR OWN SORDID DEPRAVITIES
FURTHER TO RECENT PROCLAMATION 43.2.4, WE HEREBY INFORM YOU THAT WITH IMMEDIATE EFFECT, ALL FURTHER POSTS, BLOGS, MEMOS ETC TITLED OR REGARDING CONSENSUAL NON CONSENSUALITY OR NON CONSENSUAL CONSENSUALITY (OR OTHER RELATED MATTERS) ARE IMMEDIATELY BANNED.
ANYONE FOUND TO BE BREAKING THE ABOVE INSTRUCTION OR THINKING ABOUT BREAKING IT, WILL BE FORCED TO READ THE COMPLETE WORKS OF ANAIS NIN.
ALOUD.
HIS ROYAL EXCELLENCY
THE MINISTER OF BDSM
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I like it when they beg.
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The reason there are four threads so far this topic is that it is important to a number of people.
@Lush_Life, you have already started a comedy thread on the topic here:
http://www.informedconsent.co.uk/posts/279325/
(and yes, I can see the funny side).
Why don't you @Lush_Life and you @Top_Class delete your posts here and repost them on the comedy thread, so the very limited number of posts here can be used by people who are engaged in this debate (this isn't a plea for me: I'm been somewhere just inside the sidelines).
I'll then delete mine.
Fair enough?
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Sorry old chap. I quote the following:
"There is already an existing thread about this topic. Please post new replies there.
Moved from Other BDSM "
By order of management I am afraid, I am powerless to act.
No doubt there will be numerous other opportunities to discuss consensual non consensuality. Better still, perhaps we should change the name of the site to www.informedconsensualnonconsensualconsent.co.uk
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26 Jul 10, 2:24 PM
Top_Class
UK(GU), 2 yrs
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mcncirce wrote:
pinklucy wrote:
Even when I completely and utterly did not want to do what I had to do it didn't feel like I wasn't consenting. |
If you have consented to her right to do what she wanted then surely the moment you spoke of in the quote above was an acceptance of, and submission to, that right.
Top_Class wrote:
Look, we're all subs to policemen. |
I'm not. BDSM submission is a particular mindset and I only submit to my Master. You cannot take the subject of CNC out of its BDSM context in order to prove or dis-prove it. It doesn't work.
| (made to submit to the filth) |
That phrase alone tells me that you hold no submission to a police officer. If you did then your internal thoughts about them would not be so disrespectful. You don't submit to the law, you abide by it. Likewise, you don't submit to employers, you work for them.
This constant use of the law and police officers in analogies is ridiculous since, by law, you cannot consent to any violent act except for sport, licensed tattoo/piercing and surgery. If you can't use the law to prove/disprove consent in BDSM then you can't use it to prove/dispprove non-consent either.
In my opinion, CNC is a BDSM term and needs to be discussed and defined within that context.
Michelle
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"Subs to policemen" was intended to reference power-exchange (PE) and the type of D/s which pervades society generically not the specific D/s of BDSM. Were I being nicked I wouldn't feel equal to the cops, I wouldn't feel dominant, I would feel submissive. I wouldn't consent to being nicked but I would consent to the wider concept of the right for them to try and catch me.
The depth of PE in the employer/employee arrangement is very variable but the employee still has a lot of power (to walk away from their employment, to call upon statuatory rights). A circumstance like "it's not in my contract to do X duty, but it's not explicitly excluded either so I know you have a right to ask to me to do it"; results in a power struggle employer/employee to get duty X done. Both sides use all the tricks in their respective books to win from their perspective.
My bold.
One assumes one means one not you, because you can't know whether I submit or abide or consider the law an ass.
ETA :: Change of mood. "Fork handles?"
"No, not 'fork handles' ... four candles."
Edited 26 Jul 10, 2:40 PM by Top_Class
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26 Jul 10, 2:32 PM
fellatrix
UK, 2 yrs
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pinklucy spake thus
Phew!!
It is pretty frustrating that some people seem to believe that the dynamic described by CNC does not in fact exist. It does.
However, personally I still dislike the term. I don't think it is true that everybody who has experienced this kind of relationship feels this is the best way to describe it.
In particular when I read Mia's posts I relate very strongly to what you are saying about the way it works. I think we *feel* the same about it, but I would describe it differently. It seems that when you hit that 'limit point' where you *really really* don't want to do something (and I am not disputing the fact that is really how you feel!) you feel as if you are no longer consenting. That isn't how it felt for me. Even when I completely and utterly did not want to do what I had to do it didn't feel like I wasn't consenting.
Sometimes I felt panicky, sometimes I felt like I hated her. Sometimes I just felt grumpy or petulant or fed up or even just annoyingly bored. Occasionally I questioned how I had got myself into this situation and told myself I should just walk out and leave. Sometimes I had to be threatened, physically forced or beaten to gain compliance. I'm not naturally very submissive so there were plenty of times when I experienced feeling like I *really* didn't want to do things. They ranged from the very mundane (e.g leave the room) to things most would consider extreme. (e.g this man is going to fuck you - yes I know you're a lesbian.)
I did, however, really want to be Hers. (I capitalise randomly based on emotion, I apologise for how irritating that may be!) I did really want to be in that relationship. I did really consent. That never felt in dispute to me.
I'm not trying to contradict Mia - or anyone else who has eloquently described what they like to refer to as a CNC relationship. I'm just trying to show that it is possible to understand this dynamic and to have experienced it and still dislike the term CNC. It just feels kind of sharp and annoying in my brain. |
I agree entirely with this; this is how I see my relationship. And to be honest it doesn't really matter what term is used to describe the relationship, nor does it really matter how others view it. What does matter is that it works for those involved in the relationship.
I don't describe my relationship as CNC, but as consnsual. By consenting to the relationship I consent to elements within it which I do not want. I can withdraw my consent, not from individual elements, but from the relationship as a whole. To me it is part and parcel of submission; it wouldn't be submission if I only consented to those things which I desired.
Hey, just for fun here's another analogy to throw into the melting pot, not a policeman or a non-red ball in sight:
A man with cancer is told by his doctor that there is a treatment with a very high success rate, but unfortunately there is also a high probability that the treatment will cause him to become impotent. He consents to the treatment because he would really like the cure, although he really does not want the impotence. He can't consent to the cure while witholding consent to the possibility of impotence. If he withdraws consent to the impotence he is also withdrawing consent to the treatment.
(well they say write about what you know, and over the years I must have caused many men to become impotent, all with their consent)
"I saw that my witticism was unperceived and quietly replaced it in the treasury of my mind."
— Flann O'Brien
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26 Jul 10, 2:44 PM
green_and_blue
UK, 2 yrs
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Clodmin wrote:
green_and_blue wrote:
mia wrote:
The non-consent part is when this becomes unbareable to the sub - they would use their safeword if they had one, they would run away if they could, they would ask anyone for help if they could: BUT: they are unable to. The dom continues to subject the sub to whatever is causing them distress. They do this without implied consent and possibly with vocal and physical signs that consent has been withdrawn.
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pinkylucy wrote:
Sometimes I had to be threatened, physically forced or beaten to gain compliance.
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mia wrote:
The above will seem like abuse to some
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Yes, it does and in my opinion it is.
SSC involves consent, RACK involves consent, the name of this site features consent, yet it's ok to go ahead either without consent or in the face of consent being withdrawn? How is it ok to force consent? Consent which isn't freely given isn't consent, in my opinion.
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If you can't see the difference between someone who talks openly and happily about willfully placing themselves in this situation and someone who is trapped in this situation by the fear of what would happen if they tried to leave, then I think you would be better suited to one of the heated debates over on the BDSM comedy boards.
Abused women don't write about it on BDSM sites for other people to read and enjoy.
Some people just want to suffer. You don't need to understand it, you just need to accept it.
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I'm so awfully sorry; I completely forgot that I was posting on the Nobody Is Allowed A Different Viewpoint board.
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