MaleDominantCrowd's profile . MaleDominantCrowd group posts
 |
| Malbon |
on Wed 7 Jul 10, 12:31 PM to the MaleDominantCrowd group.
I welcome the initiative of this group, and thought I would share some questions and thoughts with you.
Why is it that male Doms are less willing to co-operate and organise as an interest group than others?
MD's often have a sort of "lone wolf" attitude. MD's, in my experience, are also often a bit wary of each other. They see themselves as competing for the same scarce resources, and are often troubled by feelings of inferiority/superiority with other MD's, depending on their perceived level of experience and knowledge/skills etc.
As has been said below, the existence of men with an immature attitude to BDSM creates problems of authenticity and trust for genuine MD's. They get tarred with the same brush as it were.
MD's seem less likely to perceive benefits in co-operation and organisation. If you look at the model of something like SM Dykes for example, it is hard to imagine an MD event of that nature taking place. Why is this?
As a group one would have thought that MD's share a common orientation and interests. Yet they often don't seem to see much value in organising or participating in this sort of group activity. The energy and commitment required to get these things off the ground is surely only available if people perceive benefits to be had, but MD's tend not to perceive them. Is this because they aren't there, or because MD's fail to recognise them?
The whole notion of men only, or male dominated organisations has suffered such a severe cultural buffeting during the years of feminism in the West. Perhaps that is why people don't tend to think in these terms as much as they might have previously? Surely one effect of feminism has been to create the sense that such concentrations of male power are no longer legitimate or desirable?
What models are there for some sort of MD organisation or society?
One thinks immediately of things like the Masons, strangely enough. Many people find the Masons either risible because of their supposed eccentric initiation rituals, or downright unhealthy on account of some of their supposed political activities. But they are an example of something which has been practised over many centuries - the secret society which has the power to admit or reject potential members. Membership operates on the basis of recommendation and approval by existing members.
I'm not suggesting that MD's want to engage in any dubious or criminal activities via some sort of secret society model, merely that such things provide a model for some sort of trust and approval system which separates genuine MD's who subscribe to certain values from those who do not. But who can set themselves up as the arbiter of what these values are?
Where is the theory? What would those "certain values" entail?
I certainly haven't come across much in the way of serious work on theoretical or philosophical foundations for a value set that might propel an MD organisation. I think Tanos is the only one I know of who generates anything that one might take seriously, and I know he has organised discussions around his O&P concept. Why is this so rare?
One would have to separate values from the ephemera of preferences and activities. For example we might differ over specific desire preferences, while agreeing on a commitment to certain core values. How do we know what these are?
I'm thinking here of something along the lines of the Roman virtues. Auctoritas, potestas, veritas, severitas and so on. Notions of how men should conduct themselves in a general sense, rather than specific practises they might wish to amuse themselves with.
I think my main point here is that the philosophical basis for this is unlikely to be pluckable from thin air, and that one might think more in terms of locating and no doubt adapting models from the past.
| 7 Jul 10, 9:37 PM TheFalconer UK(S), 6 yrs |
An interesting post, lots to chew over. The obvious problem which springs to mind about adopting a "masonic" model for a MD organisation is that such things tend to involve hierarchies, and I can't imagine that many MDs would be interested in joining an organisation where they're going to be bossed around! The other problem I see is one you touched on yourself - what benefit would a MD gain from joining such an organisation? The organisation would not control any secret knowledge to share with its members, nor would it have any scarce resources it can disburse, nor even any way to show preference to members. Other than using a set of common principles/virtues to ensure that only "the right kind of chap" shows up to meetings, I'm not sure what the organisation would offer above and beyond a simple MD munch? Which is, I should stress, not to devalue the idea of having shared principles as a starting point. The O&P meets have been very interesting and stimulating to me for exactly that reason. "Morality, like art, means drawing a line someplace." - Oscar Wilde | ||
| 7 Jul 10, 10:45 PM Tanos  UK(M), 14 yrs   |
I do agree with your general observation, but it is also true that you don't get female dominant only events either. What do seem to exist as semi-public events are F/m+F/f and F/f and M/m, which misses M/f. Regards, Tanos www.tanos.org.uk | ||
| 8 Jul 10, 3:04 AM Malbon UK(LS), 8 yrs |
Yes, I would imagine you are right - MD's would be unlikely to relish any sort of hierarchical model. I was just blue-skying really, thinking about possible modes of co-operation between MD's who think along similar lines. Although I have no experience I wonder whether masonic meetings are themselves in reality little more than a sort of male munch - I think they do engage in charitable/philanthropic actitivites as well.
'The perfect life will be the one which closes in the assurance that the last of his final vocabularies, at least, really was wholly his.' | ||
| 8 Jul 10, 3:29 AM Malbon UK(LS), 8 yrs |
I like the idea of an M/f event, but I suppose the problem with sects is that they end up addressing an even smaller element of an already small congregation.
'The perfect life will be the one which closes in the assurance that the last of his final vocabularies, at least, really was wholly his.' Edited 8 Jul 10, 3:44 AM by Malbon | ||
| 8 Jul 10, 10:49 AM TheFalconer UK(S), 6 yrs |
I have no experience of them either, but I believe it's something of a mix of pomp and circumstance and then socialisation afterwards. I suppose the question is - do MDs not socialise with each other because they don't want to, because they don't see the value in it, or because they find it hard to make connections with like-minded MDs to build links? A "Domly Lodge" would address the last of these issues, and if done right might well cover the value side of things as well... The "don't wants" aren't worth considering really. I'd agree that something to keep things on-topic - at least for some portion of the meetings - would be valuable.
Nothing wrong with a bit of sects and violence! The point about small target audiences is well made - but equally it seems (anecdotally) to be the case that many M/f couples don't attend many/any scene events, so it's always possible that a specifically M/f event might in fact tap a new audience. For me one of the big questions anyone organising an M/f event would need to tackle is whether it's targeted primarily at exclusive couples or at people who may play with attendees other than the ones they arrived with. My gut feel is that the way to bring in the people who tend not to bother with the scene is to focus everything around the expectation that people will play only with their partners (if at all - it could well be a no play event). But that's just a guess really. "Morality, like art, means drawing a line someplace." - Oscar Wilde | ||
| 8 Jul 10, 2:21 PM DictEnycEditAnonMoos US, 2 yrs |
If you want a historical model, how about Sir Francis Dashwood and the Hellfire Club? 
| ||
| 8 Jul 10, 3:03 PM Malbon UK(LS), 8 yrs |
I'm intrigued by the idea that there are M/f's out there who don't attend events because they would prefer an exclusively M/f group. Also wonder if there are f's out there who would be attracted to that and the possibility of some play with bona fide M's. And what would you do re single M's - some of whom may be perfectly ok, but as we all know it is the wanky man syndrome which puts a lot of people off, myself included. Maybe limit your group to; M's with an f partner. M's recommended and invited by one of the above. f's or mtof's who might like to attend in whatever capacity, eg service, play or simply observe. Just some further thoughts. 'The perfect life will be the one which closes in the assurance that the last of his final vocabularies, at least, really was wholly his.' | ||
| 8 Jul 10, 3:03 PM Malbon UK(LS), 8 yrs |
Excellent notion!
'The perfect life will be the one which closes in the assurance that the last of his final vocabularies, at least, really was wholly his.' | ||
| 8 Jul 10, 4:03 PM TheFalconer UK(S), 6 yrs |
I wasn't thinking so much that there are people who don't come out because events aren't solely M/f (although of course that may be the case) but more that I would expect an M/f event to be a bit different to an all-comers event, and so that might mean it drifted in to a space which was more attractive to people who otherwise wouldn't bother. As I said in the latter half of the post, I do suspect that an event which is based around either no play at all or only playing with your own partner might well attract people who wouldn't otherwise bother with the scene. But really I'm just guessing since I'm someone who does (occasionally at least) go to scene events, so not well qualified to speak on behalf of people who don't! "Morality, like art, means drawing a line someplace." - Oscar Wilde | ||
| 8 Jul 10, 6:12 PM Belasarius UK(M), 8 yrs     |
Point taken. But, a system where one is valued by others is a bee in my bonnet: http://www.informedconsent.co.uk/posts/275326/
Feel free to laugh and move on How about starting with the word fraternity and moving out from that? And the Roman virtues sound good too. My goal - to save women from nature (Dior) Edited 8 Jul 10, 6:30 PM by Belasarius |
