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MaleDominantCrowd's profile . MaleDominantCrowd group posts

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TheFalconer wrote:

Dapper_Dom wrote:
MaleDom is tolerated, but unlike femDom it is not *encouraged* or seen as praiseworthy. Even some vanilla people, who are not kinky but know of BDSM, think it's great that there is femDom, yet frown on maleDom.

Part of this is just media indoctrination, surely? The default image used to depict BDSM is FemDom, so to a "vanilla" person, that's what BDSM is. It has a higher profile, essentially.

Dapper_Dom wrote:
What's more, new male Tops and Doms are sometimes treated with cynicism, having to almost prove themselves. But many new female Tops, Dommes and aspiring Mistresses gain acceptance quite quickly and are usually given moral support, facilitating their successful integration into what there is of a community and the scene, yet the same courtesy isn't always extended to men.

FemDom as a culture and mini scene in its own right is very organised, passionately supported and hugely successful, yet maleDom is almost non-existant in comparison, and certainly not celebrated.

I think that these two points are connected. On average/stereotypically, fem Dommes will play with many subs (and vice versa) even within the context of a single event. Therefore, each additional Domme enhances the scene for all other Dommes by her presence, unless and until a tipping point is reached where there are no longer enough subs to go around.

However - the average/stereotypical female sub will only play with Doms that they are in a relationship with (or at the very least will play in more limited ways with other Dom/mes). So any new male Dom is in "competition" with other male Doms in a way that female Dommes aren't to the same degree, as the assumption is that if a male Dom finds a partner then his sub will no longer be available to others.

I think that male Doms are also more often looking to have sex with subs than female Dommes, which again drives things more in the direction of the exclusivity idea.

There's a lot of caveats and "in generals" and what have you about what I'm proposing but my point is that I think this is what people perceive the reality to be.

Master_Chocolatier wrote:
I think it is partly to do with the fact that those who have gone around making a 'thing' about being a Dom have been frowned upon in the sense of them being called Twue Doms- the kind that sends the kneel bitch memos

Yeah, sadly this does still seem to be the case. The public perception of male Doms on the scene is poor.

Here's a question - is this in part because too many male Doms choose not to be active/visible on the scene?

I think so.

But I don't really know *why* that is the case...?

4 Jun 10, 9:54 AM
Cleric
UK(M), 11 yrs

Dapper_Dom wrote:

TheFalconer wrote:

Part of this is just media indoctrination, surely? The default image used to depict BDSM is FemDom, so to a "vanilla" person, that's what BDSM is. It has a higher profile, essentially.

FemDom as a culture and mini scene in its own right is very organised, passionately supported and hugely successful, yet maleDom is almost non-existant in comparison, and certainly not celebrated.

I think that male Doms are also more often looking to have sex with subs than female Dommes, which again drives things more in the direction of the exclusivity idea.

There's a lot of caveats and "in generals" and what have you about what I'm proposing but my point is that I think this is what people perceive the reality to be.

Yeah, sadly this does still seem to be the case. The public perception of male Doms on the scene is poor.

Here's a question - is this in part because too many male Doms choose not to be active/visible on the scene?

I think so.

But I don't really know *why* that is the case...?

I think it's because, as The Falconer says, the perception of male doms on the scene is fairly poor. New male doms definitely have to prove themselves a lot more than females. With femdoms they are harder to come by and when one turns up, no-one wants to upset her and lose her. When a new male dom shows up, there are plenty more where he came from. Also there is this perception of female subs being innocent and helpless creatures who are easily taken advantage of. That perception is carried on outside of the scene, which lowers the perception of male doms, and also attracts some psychos to the scene who set their stall out as a dom in the hope of attracting one of these blinking and innocent subs.

So in one sense I see why male doms are treated with more caution, when it comes to people who get into the scene for the wrong reason, a lot of them are going to identify with our role. But as for why femdom is more prevailent, I think it's mainly because we don't fit the Carry On film tabloid caricature of a stern-looking woman whipping the hell out of some dumb-looking naked fat bloke.

Manchester FAB Munch
Dark Play Group - a group for less mainstream kinks
I am Fuckwit McFuckwit of the Clan McFuckwit, and I have come to take your faith in humanity!

4 Jun 10, 10:39 AM
TheFalconer
UK(S), 6 yrs

Dapper_Dom wrote:

TheFalconer wrote:
Here's a question - is this in part because too many male Doms choose not to be active/visible on the scene?

I think so.

But I don't really know *why* that is the case...?

Well part of it is a bit of a vicious circle arising from the elements we've discussed in this thread - the scene is not always welcoming to male doms (with other male doms in some way the worst offenders), and therefore male doms choose not to engage with it.

More generally though, I think it's because the "typical" male dom relationship is a closed one involving the dom and his sub(s) and little or no play with outsiders. The scene arguably offers less to these people than it does to single people or to Dom/mes who play with others outside their relationship (which as I've said I feel is more common among fem dommes).

"Morality, like art, means drawing a line someplace." - Oscar Wilde

8 Jun 10, 11:01 AM
Dapper_Dom
2 yrs

x_Justin_x wrote:

Also there is this perception of female subs being innocent and helpless creatures who are easily taken advantage of.

I am aware of that misperception.

Do female subs do enough to explain that they are *not* innocent or helpless? It would appear that some, perhaps, reinforce that by behaving like wilting flowers.

17 Jun 10, 5:15 PM
Thoughtleader
UK(NW), 7 yrs

TheFalconer wrote:

Dapper_Dom wrote:

TheFalconer wrote:
Here's a question - is this in part because too many male Doms choose not to be active/visible on the scene?

I think so.

But I don't really know *why* that is the case...?

I'm a dominant man who's not on the "scene", and here are my reasons, for what they're worth. They're not meant as criticisms of anyone.

I think it may be right that maledom-femsub relationships tend to be just that - relationships. I think the women I've met and been looking for tend to want relationships and not just "play", and I feel the same. So I've used the internet as a way of meeting potential dates and partners - not as a way of meeting "play partners". I hate the whole idea of "play".

Nor am I interested in the kind of thing the scene appears, to the outsider, to consist of. The impression you get from websites like IC (which is brilliant in my view) is that the "scene" centres on clubs and munches.

Clubs are fine for those who like them, but I really don't, and the mere fact that a club has a BDSM theme doesn't make me any more interested. If there were more scene poetry readings, dances, wine tastings, cocktail parties, book groups and chamber concerts, I might be an uber-scenemeister. But there don't seem to be many of those. As a coffee drinker I did start going fairly regularly to Coffee, Cake and Kink in London, which I liked, but then it closed, unfortunately.

As for munches, well, I was reluctant to go for a while, precisely because I knew I was looking for a partner, not a bunch of new mates. Many people advise newbies not to go to munches with those kinds of thoughts. But in the end I was tempted to go to a munch - and I'm sorry to say, found it the least welcoming event I've ever attended. I left after a while having only had one brief conversation, and with no desire to go to a munch again.

I've visited fetish fairs and markets, which I've enjoyed because of the gear on sale. There's no social interaction, and the dance shows I've seen (at LAM in Clapham is the memory that comes to mind) have been very off-puttingly tacky.

As for learning from others, the main thing others can teach me I think is bondage techniques, but there are courses for that, as well as books and videos.

It's not that I don't have things to learn; of course I do. But that's not the same as saying other dominant men can teach me. I'm very aware that what I want isn't the same as anyone else's idea of how to improve as a dominant man. So what have I got to gain from hanging round with those guys (even supposing they want to hang around with me)? The learning is actually done by doing, and within relationships. I think I learn much more from my girlfriend about dominating a woman than I would from any other man.

So, there are my reasons for not engaging with the scene.

2 Jul 10, 2:18 AM
NimueBanditQueen
UK(MK), 2 yrs

M_I_and_C wrote:

If there were more scene poetry readings, dances, wine tastings, cocktail parties, book groups and chamber concerts, I might be an uber-scenemeister. But there don't seem to be many of those. As a coffee drinker I did start going fairly regularly to Coffee, Cake and Kink in London, which I liked, but then it closed, unfortunately.

If you'd like something like that, why don't YOU suggest it, see how many other people might be interested, get it started?

I have seen, to my recollection a theatre-attending group in the north and I'm pretty sure I saw something about poetry as well.

In the last 4 months or so on the main boards we have had people canvassing interest in a variety of possible outings/interest groups etc. I realise that most of these won't be to your taste but as a sample just off the top of my head, the following possibilities have been raised and approximately half have come to some kind of fruition so far. CMNF, sploshing, O&P meetings (more formal and talk/discussion based than a munch), unplugged music picnic in the park (more to follow), upcoming circus skills in the park, a possible MaleDom Tea Party, a mooted MaleDom(Fem?)sub hunt, discussion about MaleDom/femsub specific meetings. There must be many more I have missed.

M_I_and_C wrote:
I've visited fetish fairs and markets, which I've enjoyed because of the gear on sale. There's no social interaction,

That's not my experience, at all. Did you make an effort to promote social interaction, or do you somehow expect it to fall, ready made, into your lap? Did you go more than once? Did you try to talk to the stall holders or to other people? In short did you really care to try or not really want to?

At this munch you went to and then left, did you arrange a meet and greet with the organisers, who should then have been able to ensure that you were introduced to a few decent people?

I know someone [a male Dom] who has made friends and contacts through munches and clubs, but he was willing to go up to people and introduce himself; taking the rough with the smooth as will happen with that approach but that was proactive, it paid off.

Basically I get two things from your post:

1). Didn't really want to be part of what 'the scene' is perceived to be. Which is a totally fine and valid point of view, germane to this discussion and needs no justification.

(By the way, there is no 'scene' just as there are no secret elders: there are however a large number of varying groups and events being organised by individuals)

2). Despite 1) tried anyway but found 'the scene' not welcoming.

I think the problem here is that you didn't really want to be part of 'the scene' in any way. It seems as if you made no more than rudimentary efforts to explore it and then gladly left, having 'proved' it's lack of worth to yourself. If that's true it's really just 1) again, there is no 2).

M_I_and_C wrote:
As for learning from others, the main thing others can teach me I think is bondage techniques, but there are courses for that, as well as books and videos.

When it comes to things like bondage techniques I rather suspect that learning from books and videos is like trying to learn martial arts in the same way... only useful up to a point. (Of course that may the point that you are happy with anyway.)

I do rather wonder who are the people running the courses though. Submissives? Dominant females? Non-dominant males?

M_I_and_C wrote:
It's not that I don't have things to learn; of course I do. But that's not the same as saying other dominant men can teach me.

That's not the same as saying other dominant men couldn't teach you.

It is the same as saying that you couldn't learn from other dominant men: (I am not certain that the lack lies in them though).

Interesting that you do not even consider whether you could learn stuff from submissives at a bondage workshop... or is that not possible for a reason I don't know of?

M_I_and_C wrote:
I'm very aware that what I want isn't the same as anyone else's idea of how to improve as a dominant man. So what have I got to gain from hanging round with those guys (even supposing they want to hang around with me)?

A broader view of the world in general, perhaps some ideas you might not even have thought of ... and a bit less insecurity?

Fascinating that your take is: 'what's in it for me' and none of 'what could I have to give'?

I think you have accidentally but neatly illustrated what hampers a lot of male doms from making a better showing of themselves on the scene.

M_I_and_C wrote:
The learning is actually done by doing, and within relationships. I think I learn much more from my girlfriend about dominating a woman than I would from any other man.

So, there are my reasons for not engaging with the scene.

Looking for � a wolf in sheep's clothing.
...rushing in where angels fear to tread.
...burning bridges before they are even built, my but don't the flames look pretty?

Edited 2 Jul 10, 2:23 AM by NimueBanditQueen

6 Jul 10, 3:51 PM
Thoughtleader
UK(NW), 7 yrs

I was trying to be helpful by explaining the point of view of someone not in "the scene". I did make clear I wasn't intending criticism of anyone. I dare say you make some valid points, but I think it's a shame most of your post consists of implicit criticism of me, and a couple of suggestions about what I might have "done wrong". Not the way to promote helpful discussion, in my view.

12 Jul 10, 7:00 PM
Altheus
UK, 11 yrs

Dapper_Dom wrote:
Ever since I first took an interest in BDSM years ago, I have always noticed that femDom is far, far more prominent than maleDom*.

MaleDom is tolerated, but unlike femDom it is not *encouraged* or seen as praiseworthy. Even some vanilla people, who are not kinky but know of BDSM, think it's great that there is femDom, yet frown on maleDom.

FemDom as a culture and mini scene in its own right is very organised, passionately supported and hugely successful, yet maleDom is almost non-existent in comparison, and certainly not celebrated.

Discuss

Qui Bono. (Who benefits)

Follow the money.

A suitable mass of femdommes can fill a club with men willing to pay over the odds to spend time in the same place as them. This is why far more clubs are set up for femdom than male dom.

In addition to this I think femdoms spend more on clothes, shoes, accouterments, having drinks bought for them by male subs etc. This will also slant business towards providing goods and services for them. (Consider the number of posts that relate to the difficulty of finding male fetish kit).

Now that the money has spoken and the press come sniffing around, the impression that they have is of shiny latex domme in unlikely heels whipping some pretty boy with a £100 crop that he has just bought her for the occasion.

And this ladies and gents is why I think things are the way they are.

"If you're fucked in the head, you're fucked in the head. Don't turn it in to lifestyle."

12 Jul 10, 8:55 PM
x_flaire_x
UK(OX), 10 yrs

Altheus wrote:

And this ladies and gents is why I think things are the way they are.

If I may disagree with you slightly, oh darling Grand Pooh-Bar?

When one visits a category porn site and clicks on the BDSM or bondage or slave links there is always an abundance of MaleDom/femsub porn (with a few sprinkles of FemDom porn). Men are main consumers/purchasers of pornography - and porn providers know their market. This would indicate that there are more MaleDoms than malesubs. However, in the public arena, it is the FemDom/malesub dynamic that is more prevalent.

How come?

Well, I think it has a lot to do with the private versus the public. In the mainstream media, BDSM usually revolves around the FemDom. It is, to a certain degree, acceptable. The FemDom, whilst appearing edgy, is 'safe'. I do not mean that in any disparaging way. The MaleDom is too near the knuckle, its imagery too close to domestic violence and no mainstream media outlet would allow themselves to be open to accusations of facilitating domestic violence. Besides, from a feminist perspective, in matters regarding Professional FemDoms, it is still the masculine hand that holds the economic power - this renders it 'safe' and 'fantasy'. Hence the fondness for the 'oh, isn't naughty' reviews of Professional FemDom 'memoirs' in newspapers with a dreadful pun headline to accompany it.

Male Dominants, from my experience, are private beings. Knowing that their sexuality is disapproved of, they often hide in the shadows of pornography where there is no accusations of abuse or domestic violence. If a MaleDom 'captures' a submissive, he is likely to disappear with her, only emerging at her insistence at munches and the similar.

Again, from my experience, MaleDom/femsub encounters often involve sex...which for remains a private act for many. For me, play with my darling Grand Pooh-Bar (and yes, I'll probably get into trouble for being cheeky) is heavily driven by sex and is profoundly erotic for me. This isn't something I would be happy about in public. Safely behind locked doors, thank you very much.

Cookie Monster In Bondage!

16 Jul 10, 12:59 PM
TheFalconer
UK(S), 6 yrs

x_flaire_x wrote:

Altheus wrote:

And this ladies and gents is why I think things are the way they are.

If I may disagree with you slightly, oh darling Grand Pooh-Bar?

How come?

Interesting stuff. I agree with your reasoning for why the imbalance, but I do think we probably need to be careful of reading too much in to pornography ratios as an indicator of Dom/sub ratios in men.

It may well be the case that Male Dom porn is more popular with "vanilla" men, which would distort the figures somewhat surely?

"Morality, like art, means drawing a line someplace." - Oscar Wilde

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