Listening Skills and D/s (22)

The attendees on the taster course had a number of exercises in listening, summarising, repeating and paraphrasing what our partners said. On some of these the other people struggled; I feel rather smug and proud that I didn't have much difficulty with any of it (although the exercises were a challenge – anything that requires focus must challenge you to command that focus, I feel).

But this focus I think is what gave me the edge, because of my experience as a BDSM Dominant. A Dom, particularly someone like me, who has a strong disciplinarian/strictness flavour, has to be able to pay attention to what a submissive partner is saying or doing to be able to keep hir on track. Many is the time a sub has tried to derail an interrogation or lesson by distracting me onto some other course. Being able to reflect back to her what she's saying and remain focussed on the task at hand has proved invaluable in that kind of situation.

In fact, another skill not directly touched upon in the course but that I found useful anyway in the exercises, was the ability to "bookmark" points in the conversation where departure happened and things went down some side alley or whatever. As mentioned above, subs try to derail a discussion and thus evade some dreaded "punishment"; it can be very fun to allow them to think they've succeeded and then bring things back to where we were anyway – no escape! Well, obviously there was no such dreaded consequence or such involved with the counselling skills, but the exercises had a tendency to evolve away from where they started and then we had to get back on track. By being alert and following carefully what was being said, I was often able to bring things back with a well-placed comment.

The attentiveness of active listening I think is a real parallel with D/s. It really is essential within a D/s relationship to be paying attention closely to one's partner. To maintain the command and presence as a Dominant, one must always be alert to how one's submissive is responding. And of course, as a submissive one must be able to follow carefully what is being asked of one by one's Dominant partner. And this is before we even get to the importance of attentiveness when there is any kind of bondage or SM play involved!

Now, it's fair to say that as a Dominant my reasons for using these skills are very different from the reasons that they are important in counselling. In counselling, the purpose is to enable the client to express themselves and know that they are being understood. The client leads the conversation and the counsellor spends more time listening and doesn't try to steer it. A Dominant (or at least, this Dominant!) is always in control, and is going to take any "discussion" where zie wishes it to go, and indeed is going to use the skills of active listening, of paraphrasing, and of "bookmarking", to make sure that happens.

However, at the same time, these points stand as a direct contradiction of the assumptions that some people make about D/s, particularly that a Dominant must simply not care what hir partner thinks or feels and can ignore what is said. There is no way that a Dominant can maintain the control that is the basis of consensual power-exchange and the pleasure that both derive from the relationship, unless that Dominant is completely aware of and in tune with hir submissive partner's feelings and responses!

I think that, for D/s folks, this is one of the reasons why submission in D/s relationships feels so positive. Although counselling and D/s are very different things, and certainly should not be mistaken one for the other, some of the same benefits can be derived from both because of this attentive, active listening. In the taster course we were reminded that in the modern world, having someone genuinely pay attention to you and just listen is actually pretty rare - and it feels GOOD when someone does. To have that attention, that focus, and it be all about you (a sub is all about hir Dom; but equally, a Dom is all about hir sub - no matter what the script of the play says!) is very comforting and reinforcing. It makes us feel good about ourselves, and it makes us feel that we have value as human beings.

Am I on the path, or have I lost my way?
And, oh dear, they said there might be wolves in here. Maybe I can get directions from that man in the smart wool suit with the big friendly smile and the big shiny teeth and the devilish glint in his eyes…

Perhaps you are suffering from D/s Blue Car Syndrome.

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Buggrit! Millennium hand and shrimp.

It is not just important for the Dom to have good listening skills, the submissive also needs to be able to listen and reflect back what the Dominant has said so that it is clear that they have been understood.

"I'm selfish, impatient and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle. But if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best."

Erm, you seem to have missed the whole part where I said about how they are different!

e.g. "...reasons for using these skills are very different from the reasons that they are important in counselling."

I would agree with that to some extent - although there are plenty of relationships that seem to get on okay without much of them! It was surprising to me just how much some of the other people on the taster course struggled with the techniques that I found natural, for example. I feel that the D/s dynamic makes it much more of an imperative, rather than just being helpful

I think I did touch on that in the OP, and yes, it's a valid and important point. And again, I would say that in D/s it's much more imperative that this takes place - the dynamic just won't function properly without it - whereas in 'nilla relationships, it doesn't seem to be as vital for a relationship at least to get by.

As the tutor on the taster said, a lot of this comes down to practice: I suspect that D/s means we learn and practise these active listening skills regularly so it seemed natural to me just because I've practised it more than the other people on the course had done.

And that's the bit I was disagreeing with.

I don't I think I missed any point, I read your post thoroughly. I just think you are seeing to much into it. The skills you mention that could be of benefit in a D/s relationship are just good interpersonal skills, so yes they would benefit any relationship, yes they are important in counselling, but I am saying there is nothing outstanding in the comparison between the two.

Hewwo! I make nylon whips. Take a peek at my profile if you'd like to buy one.
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Buggrit! Millennium hand and shrimp.

Edited 20 Mar 10, 2:07 AM by little_belle

See the comments I make above. In brief, yes - they benefit any relationship, and indeed this was discussed in the taster course. But there's a difference between "benefit" and "essential for". Maybe you don't think these skills are essential for D/s, that they're an optional extra that merely has benefits for D/s. If that is the case, then that's okay and we just have to accept we have these differing ideas and aren't going to see things in the same way.

Slightly different, I do see them as essential for healthy and happy relationship...whether D/s or vanilla.

I am sure many people have vanilla relationships were one or all parties do not have very good listening/communication skills...but those relationships would probably not be ideal.

This is the same for D/s relationship, which we seem to be assuming (for the purposes of this debate) are all perfect. Unfortunately they can be (and are) just as fucked up and unworkable as vanilla ones if the people involved don't function at the level needed by the other(s).

Hewwo! I make nylon whips. Take a peek at my profile if you'd like to buy one.
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Buggrit! Millennium hand and shrimp.

Edited 20 Mar 10, 2:28 AM by little_belle

Well, again: "not ideal" is not the same as "fucked up and unworkable". My argument is that the threshold at which a D/s dynamic breaks down is much higher, and therefore the need for the listening and communication skills is much higher, than you find in vanilla relationships. And to maintain a "not ideal" D/s situation you still need more of these skills than you do to maintain a "not ideal" vanilla relationship. (That said, I recognise that we may not be in agreement about the meaning of "ideal" here - to me it is possible to conceive of a "not ideal" relationship that is still healthy and happy, maybe that's not the case in how you are using those terms.)

I mentioned briefly in the OP that these skills tie in directly to the exercise of Dominance in a way that has no parallel that I can see in vanilla relationships. To expand on that idea one need only look at the threads discussing, for example, the ways in which subs will test the rules to make sure that they are still being applied. That's not something that has a direct parallel in vanilla relationships, but it is directly to do with the skills of active listening (albeit in this case often to do more with non-verbal aspects of listening) and attentiveness.

So the point you drew out as the point you disagree with is, in fact, central to my view. I don't see that level of attentiveness as being central to vanilla relationships the way it is to D/s. Yes, it's good to be attentive to one's partner (and one's friends, for that matter) but the type of focussed attentiveness that was discussed on the taster course, and that I find exemplified in good D/s practice, I think is something else - a different level of attentiveness. This is the parallel I found, and that I don't seem to find when I look at vanilla relationships.

So to summarise (as perhaps I should have done in my OP):

I believe that D/s uses these listening skills in a focussed and immediate sense that isn't required in vanilla relationships, but that does have a parallel in the way that they might be the focus of counselling skills. Although the skills are important for both vanilla and D/s, I think that this means that there is a clear difference that makes them more important to D/s than to vanilla, because of the much more immediate use. I form this opinion from my personal experience of D/s (including my personal development from being involved in D/s) and observation of vanilla relationships around me, and also from several of the threads I have read over the years - on IC, and other BDSM forums that discuss D/s.