Informed_Debate's profile . Informed_Debate group posts
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| DancesWithPussycats |
on Mon 1 Mar 10, 7:11 PM to the Informed_Debate group.
Should Brits living outside of the UK pay the UK tax on money they make outside of the UK? If so, why, on what moral basis?
(This question is sparked by the Lord Ashcroft story, but is not about him. He is a special case because of his involvement in UK politics and odd residence/domicile status.)
| 1 Mar 10, 7:52 PM Lex_Magister UK(M), 7 yrs |
Do people that live in the UK but work abroad in the holiday industry and such pay tax to this country through their wages?
As I type I reach out my hand, so as you read, you are then touched. | |
| 1 Mar 10, 7:58 PM JustPlainOldKinky UK(DA), 3 yrs |
I think this has absolutley no baring on the election...what a complete non subject espically when you consider each of the 3 main parties have their own non dom backers... This is just labours version of the Gordon Brown is a bully story..something to divert the plebs from the serious questions of the day.
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| 1 Mar 10, 8:50 PM Scribbles UK(RH), 4 yrs |
The thing that mucks things up over non-doms is how, whatever the rules are, people will find a way to make them look silly. You'd think it would be simple to define where you live,... until you try to formulate it. | |
| 1 Mar 10, 8:58 PM DancesWithPussycats UK(TW), 7 yrs |
I'm not intending this to be about Ashcroft and the election. As I understand it, if you are a brit living and working outside the UK you can still be expected to pay UK income tax on your earnings, but I am not sure of the exact rules. To me it makes sense to pay tax in the country where you earn the money, because that country is providing you with the social and economic environment that enables you to make that money. International man of mystery | |
| 1 Mar 10, 10:03 PM spirifer UK, 6 yrs |
It's not actually all that difficult to work out where someone is domiciled. It's the residence test that has taxed HMRC and the courts recently! The problem appears to be more that the definitions which apply to the ordinary person don't seem to be applied in the same way to politicians. It's a bit like the CGT principal residence relief. An ordinary person wouldn't have received the same leniency with the flipping of PRR that the MPs appear to have had. The state has no business in the bedrooms of the nation - Pierre Trudeau | |
| 2 Mar 10, 12:21 AM AnEnglishMaster UK(ME), 5 yrs |
I may be wrong, but I understood that your "non-residence" in the UK meant you could only spend a limited number of days here each year, and that if you exceeded that quota, you could not claim to be non-resident. That is why, as I recall, the Rolling Stones had to cancel a UK concert a few years back, since if they had done it, it would have cost them a fortune, by taking them beyond the tipping point. So, if a definition exists, and people stick to it, why should they pay taxes here? You are legally entitled to avoid tax, but not evade it. If the Revenue set the rules, and you comply, that should be sufficient. After all, you are likely to be paying tax in whatever place you are domiciled. So why should you pay twice? English
"It may be that your sole purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others" - Anon | |
| 2 Mar 10, 12:41 AM DancesWithPussycats UK(TW), 7 yrs |
That was what I wondered. It seems to me logical that the income tax should be paid where the money is earned, paying back into that economy. Any money they come back to the UK with will be taxed when they spend it on anything, so the UK Government still benefits as well. International man of mystery | |
| 2 Mar 10, 12:51 AM Lex_Magister UK(M), 7 yrs |
What about health care ? How and who pays for that? As I type I reach out my hand, so as you read, you are then touched. | |
| 2 Mar 10, 12:02 PM DancesWithPussycats UK(TW), 7 yrs |
In France I received hospital treatment, for which I paid a percentage (10%?) of the cost and the rest was covered by the French health care system. Most people had health insurance to cover the personal payment and I think it was waived for the low paid. International man of mystery | |
| 2 Mar 10, 11:18 PM celestialblue UK(WC), 2 yrs |
I don't know if this is any help (and for some now may be the time to go an watch a gallon of paint drying) but this idea of domicile is not always the same as it is understood in other countries. In the UK, domicile means the place you regard as your ultimate home. So if you are, for example, an Australian living long term in the UK, but intending eventually to go back to Australia to retire, you can say that that you have retained your Australian domicile, even though you are a long-term resident of the UK. The importance of this for tax purposes is that the normal rule for UK tax, is that if you are tax-resident in the UK you must pay taxes on your world-wide income. However, there is an exception made for those people who have retained a non-UK domicile. They only have to pay UK tax on that part of their world-wide income which is paid to the UK. This beautiful little tax avoidance structure has become the envy of the world. It was because of it, that a number of wealthy Greek shipowners were prepared to come and live in London and set up offices here, because they knew their world wide income would be not be subject to UK tax provided it was paid to a bank say in Switzerland. It is also the reason why Roman Abramovich has done something similar. In recent years people have started to obsess about the amount of UK tax which “non-doms” are not paying, but they tend to forget that they never will pay their world wide income to the UK just to incur higher taxes than in the places to which they are paying it at the moment. All that happens if this tax structure is undermined, is that they will move out of the UK altogether and a certain amount of jobs will go with them. I hope this also explains the problem for the UK if it raises taxes above the levels of potential competitor countries. This is the tipping point at which the owners of intellectual property and international services look for more economic places in which to conduct their operations. |
