Emotional S&M (15)

not necessarily; it's intriguing trying to play on emotional tenderness/dependancy and it is one of the attractions for us (of couple play) as there should (usually) be the emotional concern of one partner for the other especially if one of them is a dom/me conversion.

'Kiss the boot of shiny, shiny leather' - Velvet Underground

I also would shy away from hurting anyone's feelings, or deliberately humiliating them. I think it's mroe a physical s&m than an emotional one for me.

subbie xxx

I suppose what I meant by emotional masochism wasn't so much seeking or being in 'bad', emotionally damaging relationships but rather wanting or needing to experience negative emotions within a 'good' relationship.

For me it's about being able to live the negative emotions within the safety of a play scene. Being able to go on an emotional rollercoaster, fighting and crying until you're an absolute broken mess, then being gently and carefully put back together again. Experiencing the fear, hurt, anger, disappointment, insecurity, even hate, knowing that it'll come to an end and the calm, peacful, contended feeling at the end of it will be even more potent. I suppose it's almost like a cleansing of the emotions.

So it's not about feeling miserable all the time or having sadness or drama as a default setting. It's experienceing negative emotion in a 'controlled' way which heightens the effect of positive emotions.

I'm not sure I've explained that very clearly

@Strictly_SnM discussion group
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgZ4s7ThoG8
-:Marquis DeSade:- There are thorns everywhere, but along the path of vice, roses bloom above them.

Edited 27 Feb 10, 7:19 PM by Incandescence

lima_pink_tigress wrote: I'm not sure I've explained that very clearly

On the contrary, that was a pretty good summary. Emotional S&M is equally as valid as the physical equivalent. For some people, the two are almost inextricable; for others not. It's the opportunity to experience such high and lows within a controlled environment (that sounded rather cold, didn't it?) that makes BDSM what it is.

Edited 27 Feb 10, 8:57 PM by moonstruck

I do like a good mindfuck, but I see that as a very different animal.

I suppose it's all about intent and the effect you know it'll have on the victim.

You know they say it's always the quiet ones you have to watch? That's me.

I actually find your statement about emotional sadism to be pretty offensive and not at all in keeping with YKIOK. How can any kind of consensual SM be abuse? That's the type of statement I'd expect to hear about SM activities from a non BDSMer who has no idea about SSC, RACK or the motivations behind WIITWD.

If it's the case that consensual emotional SM is abuse then why isn't consensual physical SM abuse. Why is it ok for a man to beat a woman (or vice versa) and it not be abuse?

It may be a "VERY hard limit" for you but that doesn't mean it's wrong for anyone to indulge in it if it's what gets them off.

I'm actually struggling to get across how astonished I am at such a statement on a BDSM wbsite.

@Strictly_SnM discussion group
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgZ4s7ThoG8
-:Marquis DeSade:- There are thorns everywhere, but along the path of vice, roses bloom above them.

When I was writing that, I drafted a disclaimer saying how it wasn't meant to offend anyone who DID enjoy it, but then discarded it as I figured, as I wasn't talking to our American cousins, it'd be understood that this was personal opinion and not swingeing statements of universal intent.

More fool me.

Absolutely no offense was meant to anyone, and I would never, ever claim to talk for the entire BDSM community, or expect them to follow a single thing I did or said.

For me personally and definitely not talking for anyone else, I don't see how even consensual emotional sadism can be a good thing. I'm open to be shown differently, however and I watched this thread for a good while before posting.

To clarify my definitions, which might help to show where I'm coming from:

I interpret the term as enjoying breaking the sub down to a level of decrepitude from which it would be difficult to return. To do so much damage through emotional manipulation and crushing degradation as to ensure the sub really, truly believed I believed what I was saying. I simply don't have it in me to do that.

What the OP describes, to me (and only me, I speak for nobody else), is an essential part of play, the verbal part of a Dom/me's arsenal. In context, doing controlled damage to the psyche in order to enhance the physical. I personally don't see that as sadism,...more...let's say "bedside manner"? Now THAT is something I do, and enjoy.

I can see how it might be seen as sadism by others. Maybe it IS something I do and enjoy, but don't class as such, because it doesn't occur to me that that's what I'm doing. I don't know...

As for emotional masochism - I've seen and been around too many very emotionally hurt people to see the positives in this.

Edited, as things occurred to me later.

You know they say it's always the quiet ones you have to watch? That's me.

Edited 28 Feb 10, 4:03 PM by Fitznicely

Sorry if I misunderstood. I saw the word 'abuser' in bright red bold capital letters

Perhaps thinking more about an emotional masochist who craves this sort of thing rather than a sub who may or may not be masochistic in any way. I really don't see the difference between hitting a masochist and breaking an emotional masochist so long as you're capable of dealing with the aftermath should there be any. It could be said (although this is not my belief) that it is more cruel to consensually beat a sub who is not masochistic than it is to consensually play with the emotions of an emotional masochist. I happen to think both are absolutely fine as long as the consent is there.

Also it doesn't have to be about humilliation or deprivation, playing with fear, insecurity, jealousy (even on a headfuck level with no threats or suggestions ever being carried out) could, in my opinion, be classed as emotional SM. And what's most important, again IMO, is the putting back together at the end.

So, would you say that physically hurting someone in a controlled environment (which is, one would hope, what we do) is not sadism?

Ah, I see the problem here. I don't see emotional masochism as having/wanting a negative emotional state as one's default setting (Mine certainly isn't) just as a masochist doesn't want to be in constant pain. It's about being able to 'live' the emotions in a controlled way and actually it heightens and magnifies the positive emotions (I knew i wasn't explaining that clearly and still don't think I am. In fact I'm not sure I can). Obviously it has to be done with a whole lot of trust in and knowledge of each other for it not to be damaging. And the putting back together is of paramount importance.

@Strictly_SnM discussion group
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgZ4s7ThoG8
-:Marquis DeSade:- There are thorns everywhere, but along the path of vice, roses bloom above them.

Edited 28 Feb 10, 9:37 PM by Incandescence

I can't make that decision for anyone else and wouldn't expect anyone to be swayed by my opinion. Anyone in my position wouldn't let themselves be swayed, let's face it.

You know they say it's always the quiet ones you have to watch? That's me.