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Publish and be damned to go ? (50)

This post is on the BDSM Activism web board.

Tue 16 Feb 10, 9:28 AM
go4it
UK, 8 yrs
Interesting bedfellows here.

Solicitor Mark Stephens has warned that the fact the European Court in Strasbourg court had fast-tracked Max Mosley's application seeking a ruling - forcing UK journalists to notify individuals in advance if they are planning to publish private information about them - could mean its judges are set to rule in his favour.

Eight media and free speech organisations have been given permission by the Court to intervene in the case.

The organisations, being represented by solicitor Mark Stephens of law firm Finers Stephens Innocent and Geoffrey Robertson QC are: the Media Legal Defence Initiative (MLDI), Index on Censorship, the International Media Lawyers Association, the European Publishers' Council, the Mass Media Defence Centre, the Romanian Helsinki Committee, the Bulgarian Access to Information Programme Foundation, and Global Witness

Stephens said: “It is a frightening prospect for lovers of free speech that this crucial case has been abandoned by the News of the World and will be defended only by the British Government, which has no concept of what free speech means.

"It is very worrying that a court which has not been favourable to free speech recently has fast tracked this particular application and this may well be an indication that the judges are preparing to mount another attack on the media.

"If they uphold Mosley's complaint, this will be further evidence of a need for a British Bill of Rights that protects our fundamental press freedoms."

Robertson said: “Mr Mosley's argument that the law should require prior notification before publication is a fundamental breach of the rule against prior restraint, first stated by Blackstone and famously embodied in the Duke of Wellington's challenge, 'publish and be damned'.

“It is a rule which has been enshrined in US law by the Pentagon Papers case and Lord Denning always insisted it should apply in libel - you cannot get a pre-publication injunction where the press is prepared to defend.

"Now, the Mosley team is attempting to persuade European Judges, who are not alert to this free speech tradition, to circumvent it by reference to Article 8 and privacy."

16 Feb 10, 9:44 AM
Cassius
UK, 3 yrs

Difficult one here. Personal privacy v. press freedom. The press has not been notably restrained in destroying people in order to sell newspapers=make money. I come down on the side of personal privacy. Should a future court have to decide what is in the public interest to be published as opposed to mere sensationalism for commercial reasons, doubtless some Commission will have to draw up guidelines.The press will always publish what it wishes to publish despite any law. At present nobody has any protection unless they can afford to take a civil action.I oppose any measure designed to keep lawyers in a job - the US Constitution is a good touchstone in that an action can be defined as "unconstitutional" and is stopped in its tracks.We must not knee-jerk because Mr Mosley had an infamous father! Also,let us not forget that the move is only designed to compel reporters to inform people that they are about to publish, it does not ban them from publishing. Of course,it would be used ruthlessly by governments and powerful entities to prepare a pre-emptive strike.....interesting:should not the press be compelled to give equal space to any refutation? Er....and a Bill of Rights to protect INDIVIDUAL freedom should come before one to protect the potential profits of newspapers.....

Practise senseless acts of beauty.

Edited 16 Feb 10, 9:49 AM by Cassius

16 Feb 10, 10:14 AM
ClassAct2005
UK(N), 7 yrs
I think I support the requirement to tell people before private information about them is published, as damages after the fact are not an effective remedy. This is about personal privacy. It is not about other areas such as publication of information about Government policy or climate change or anything other than information about a physical living person.
16 Feb 10, 10:24 AM
DrTaps
AQ, 9 yrs
go4it wrote:

Robertson said: “Mr Mosley's argument that the law should require prior notification before publication is a fundamental breach of the rule against prior restraint, first stated by Blackstone and famously embodied in the Duke of Wellington's challenge, 'publish and be damned'.

I'm not sure what I think either although the Mosley proposal is that a court should decide what a newspaper should be allowed to publish, not that the subject of the article can have it blocked for good. The case would be argued in front of a judge by both sides. Mosley himself was quite clear about this in his recent BBC Radio 4 interview

But I think it is disingenuous and perhaps wrong for Mr Robertson to try and use the Duke of Wellington in this context. After all, wasn't his "publish and be damned" reposte made when the courtesan Harriette Wilson threatened to publish her memoirs and his letters i.e. after he was told what was going to be published about him? He was pre-warned.

Lawyers, got to love them.

16 Feb 10, 10:42 AM
clare
11 yrs
More press mewlings claiming that the publication of salacious private information for commercial gain is something to do with freedom of speech. No rights are absolute yet News of the World and Robertson QC are unable to mount any kind of argument that balances their putrid rights against the individual's privacy.

As person above notes, the issue is much more limited. It's about whether the press should notify the person of intended publication so that they can go to Court to ask for order restraining publication. As Class Act says, this is partly about whether money can compensate for the public humiliation and disclosure to family.

It is also about the commercial realities of a decision to publish. If the press can publish before going to Court then it will get the certain commercial return before incurring the legal costs. As a bonus, they can publish a further story about the victim's attempt to "gag" them. If the legal hearing comes first then the press are faced with legal costs every time they want to publish but without any certainty that they will then be able to publish and make anything from it.

This side of the commercial strategy strangely never gets mentioned when the press complain that English libel laws are a gagging charter for the wealthy.

16 Feb 10, 11:00 AM
relaxed1
UK(BR), 6 yrs

This is an issue that has a multiplicity of conflicts. In principle, privacy is (or should be) a basic and inalienable human right. I have no interest in what Max Mosely does, or indeed any other 'celebrity'. At the same time, I think that the role of journalists in exposing the worst excesses of Government abuses in vital.

There must be a happy medium between respect for privacy and exposure of malfeasance, the protection of human rights versus the exposure of political scandals.

"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking up at the stars" - Oscar Wilde
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Evelyn Beatrice Hall

16 Feb 10, 11:17 AM
emark
UK, 8 yrs
I never knew that freedom of speech meant the freedom to take videos of someone's private, personal sexual acts without permission, then publish them for the purpose of commercial gain, and to defame the person.

Perhaps there might hypothetically be some cases where it's hard to balance freedom of speech versus right to privacy, but this is no such case. I don't think it's any more relevant than other examples that technically limit free speech, such as libel, or copyright laws. Freedom of speech has never been absolute.

If a newspaper is going to risk publishing things that it knows are damaging to a person, in order for commercial gain, then I don't feel it's unreasonable for them to take responsibility for damages if they get it wrong.

ETA: Remember, we're not talking about criminal laws here, where a certain type of speech has been banned. This is a civil issue, and it's about making up for damages that the papers cause to individuals, in the pursuit of profit.

Sign the Consenting Adult Action Network's statement

Edited 16 Feb 10, 11:34 AM by emark

16 Feb 10, 11:18 AM
Doghouse_Reilly
UK(MK), 6 yrs

Since all 'the press' is these days is a mouthpiece for a handful of rich tycoons who like to push their largely destructive and self serving agendas on the public I think they can bollocks. There is plenty of room for legitimate journalism without having to fuck people over.

“Some people never go crazy, What truly horrible lives they must live”

16 Feb 10, 11:22 AM
MissP
UK(EN), 8 yrs
Doghouse_Reilly wrote:
Since all 'the press' is these days is a mouthpiece for a handful of rich tycoons who like to push their largely destructive and self serving agendas on the public I think they can bollocks. There is plenty of room for legitimate journalism without having to fuck people over.

Yeah, but there's no money in it.

Sex sells.

I don't at all disagree with rules on only publishing what's in the public interest, but if the journos stick to that, they won't sell papers. For the media moguls, it's not just an ethical choice, it's a financial one too.

www.thedivinemissp.co.uk

16 Feb 10, 11:26 AM
Doghouse_Reilly
UK(MK), 6 yrs

MissP wrote:
Doghouse_Reilly wrote:
Since all 'the press' is these days is a mouthpiece for a handful of rich tycoons who like to push their largely destructive and self serving agendas on the public I think they can bollocks. There is plenty of room for legitimate journalism without having to fuck people over.

Yeah, but there's no money in it.

Sex sells.

I don't at all disagree with rules on only publishing what's in the public interest, but if the journos stick to that, they won't sell papers. For the media moguls, it's not just an ethical choice, it's a financial one too.

Then fuck 'em. Let them get proper jobs.

“Some people never go crazy, What truly horrible lives they must live”

16 Feb 10, 5:22 PM
Dimswitch3
UK, 5 yrs
ClassAct2005 wrote:
I think I support the requirement to tell people before private information about them is published, as damages after the fact are not an effective remedy. This is about personal privacy. It is not about other areas such as publication of information about Government policy or climate change or anything other than information about a physical living person.

Very tricky one.One mans privacy is another mans whistle blowing.

For example what if MP's had publication of their expenses hushed up for privacy reasons?

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