8 Feb 10, 8:29 PM
Thistle
US, 4 yrs
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Libertine_67 wrote:
judicial punishment is consentual see kitiara s post above its democracy
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Just because the judicial punishment is born of democracy doesn't make it consensual. I'm an American voter and I absolutely do not consent to the death penalty. I don't consent to it being used if I am ever a victim of murder and I don't consent to it as a humane or reasonable form of judicial punishment in my country.
Being subject to a law is not at all the same thing as consenting to one.
love the brave but avoid cowards, knowing the gratitude of cowards is small ~Praxilla of Sicyon
Edited 8 Feb 10, 8:30 PM by Thistle
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8 Feb 10, 8:48 PM
lima_pink_tigress
3 yrs |
I think you've misunderstood the part of my post that you've quoted. I wasn't comparing the man in the video to a rapist or to a BDSMer or anyone else for that matter. What I was saying was that the being punished for commiting a crime could not be compared, on the grounds of non consent, to being raped. The_Perfect_Sadist wrote:
It's not really the details of whether this or that kink is consensual, or how far consent stretches, that I'm posting about but how it seems to me that the guy in the video has been made into "the other" - a criminal who deserves what he gets, because he knew what he was getting into and crossed the line.
I'm just saying that I (and I guess there are many here) who cross the line. But we're not criminalised because we're educated, middle class and know how to play the game.
It's specifically the vehemence of your assertion that there can be "no comparison" that I'm questioning (while I fully understand your honest anger at a "real" rapist who doesn't care about his victim.)
I think there is a tendency for me and others of my kind to think we're fundamentally different from him - and I don't think that's really true.
I notice that today the MPs who have been charged with fraud are trying to claim immunity through Parliamentary privilege. Not so long ago, they would have got away with it, because it would have seemed that "there was no comparison" between an MP who overclaims his expenses and a burglar who climbs into a ground floor window. Today, though, we can see there is a direct comparison.
lima_pink_tigress wrote:
The_Perfect_Sadist wrote:
lima_pink_tigress wrote:
[
The thing that really pissed me off in the origonal thread was the poster who got a bee in her bonnet about the *supposed* 'non consnsuality' of a criminal being punished for commiting a crime and went on to compare that to the non consensuality of someone being raped. That, to my mind, and I'm sure most other people with an ounce of common sense who sit and really think about it would agree, is complete and utter bollocks! There simply is no comparison.
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I understand your outrage here, Tigress, but I feel you are overstating the case when you say that there is NO comparison.
I know this is the perennial topic here, but surely if every single aspect of your play was totally consensual, you'd be bored stiff - or should I say bored limp. This man has decided to become an outlaw, or one who makes his own rules and has been caught out.
When I tie up a girl, gag her, pick up a whip and torture her, it's consensual in that we've met here, emailed, met in real life, liked each other and decided to play. But that's it. The fact remains that I am torturing her because I am making up my own rules, not because I'm conforming to Her Majesty's Rules and Regulations for Consensual Kink (or whatever acronym is fashionable this week.)
In my mind there is every room for comparison and to make this man "the other" and criminalise him in some way that is different from what I do is, IMO wrong. To think that he is wrong and bad because he was sentenced by a court and I am OK and legitimate because I'm open about what I'm doing is very dodgy ground. I could get far worse judicial pubishment for what I do than anything he's done, simply by changing the viewing angle of the prism.
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I'm not sure I fully understand your post and think (actually hope) that something has been lost in the translation (so to speak). I'll reply to it how I've interpreted it and please correct me if I've misunderstood.
I have given consent for Ollie to do whatever to me, and I've done that because I've known him for a year and trust him not to anything that would cause me harm or distress. he knows my likes and dislikes and more importantly my boundaries (similarly he's afforded me the same freedom) so, no I wouldn't expect to give or recieve specific consent for each individual 'thing' that we do.
Now this is where I become confused. The way I'm reading your post, you seem to be comparing what you do (therefor what WE do to rape??). You recieving consent from someone to do things to them without them knowing exactly what you will do is a million miles from you attacking and raping someone. I would assume that even after giving consent which admittedly may not be fully informed conent but is consent none the less), a submissive can at any time withdraw that consent. I would also expect that you, having that consent, would make every effort not to overstep any boundaries or do any thing tht would cause her physical, emotional or psychological harm?
If that's the comparison you were making then that makes even less sense to me than the comparison between the non-consensuality of punishment with that of rape.
As I said, I'm not sure I've read your post as you intended it.
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In order to know virtue, we must first aquaint ourselves with vice - Marquis De Sade
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8 Feb 10, 9:12 PM
BooteDom
UK(NR), 6 yrs
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OK this has been raised on this second thread.I asked on the first if anyone would NOT take £1million to take 20 strokes.
Who would prefer to accept 20 months in prison than the cane strokes? It looks terrible but personally I would take the strokes. |
8 Feb 10, 9:40 PM
MissP
UK(EN), 8 yrs
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BooteDom wrote:
OK this has been raised on this second thread.I asked on the first if anyone would NOT take £1million to take 20 strokes.
Who would prefer to accept 20 months in prison than the cane strokes? It looks terrible but personally I would take the strokes.
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Me too.
However, having opted out of being a drug dealer in a country known to be harsh with penalties for said offences, it ain't gonna happen thankfully.
www.thedivinemissp.co.uk
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8 Feb 10, 9:43 PM
jstripes
UK(KT), 7 yrs
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Sponge_boobs wrote:
jstripes wrote:
rubberroy wrote:
I'm sure this clip done the rounds on here a few months ago with similar sentiments and views expressed then as now.
I'm sure someone like Jstripes will be along soon with some useful comments.
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After that how could I not contribute.
As you say, the clip has done the rounds for some time now. It was probably at least a couple of years ago that I first saw it.
It is disturbing but at the same time for someone like me, fascinating.
I have had many judicial style corporal punishments, but mostly not as severe as that. I have recently had a pretty realistic re-creation of such a caning, where I had 18 strokes that had pretty much the same sort of effect as that shown on the clip, so I think that I can say that I have received myself pretty close to the real thing.
Sponge_boobs wrote:
OK HUGE RANT!
WHAT THE FUCK PEOPLE!
THIS HAS MADE ME REALLY ANGRY!
WHY ARE YOU TAKING PLEASURE IN SEEING SOMEONE PUNISHED FOR DOING A CRIMINAL ACT???!!!
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The whole point about this site is that we are into strange, deep, dark things that many in society do not understand, find disturbing or offensive and in many cases would want to see banned. Unfortunately, much as we might like to, we can't help it because, like it or not, that is how we are made. Society could seek to ban the stuff that we do, but that wouldn't make go away because it is too strong within us.
Presumably, Sponge boobs, you are into some sort of kink or other and would like society to be tolerant about whatever your flavour of kink is. So please then be tolerant of other kinky folk whose peccadillos are different to yours. You may find their thing to be too much for you, but remember that we are all different.
sub_serena wrote:
I have watched it over and over .. fairly jelous..yes I am sick !!
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Yes, I know. I'm the same, sick, just like you!
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you were wrong. i love canes but i have a different opinion when things come down to consent. if somebody does not consent in any circumstance whatsoever i thing it is WRONG! there is no questioning this in my head! i am tolerant but i still think the people who get turned on by seeing someone unconsentually hurt are sick!
would you get turned on if you saw someone getting raped in the street? there is no difference in my head comparing either of these situations!
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The nub of this particular problem is that if you are someone who is turned on by a judicial style caning you are likely to be turned on by it regardless of the circumstances.
Your brain doesn't suddenly say, oh, I am allowed to find this particular is scene hot because it is consensual, politically correct and all that, but this other one, oh no, I'm not allowed to be turned on by that because of the circumstances behind it. The reaction is much more basic than that and certainly doesn't operate through some sort of moral filter.
Exactly the same applies to rape scenes. A lot of people are turned on by rape scenes, both males and females, doms and subs. The vast majority would only participate in such a scene if it was a consensual 'play' scenario, but they would be god damn liars if they were to allege that they weren't turned on by the non-consensual variety, in fact the whole point of even the 'play' variety is that it attempts to re-create a real non-play scenario.
It is no earthly good saying, oh dear, that's wrong, that's bad, etc. We have to face up and admit to what happens in our heads, even if many would say it is sick.
There was some dark stuff confessed to on this thread, but I guess that many didn't have the bottle to confess, lest they be shouted at in bold capital letters about how BAD they are.
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8 Feb 10, 9:56 PM
Thistle
US, 4 yrs
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jstripes wrote:
Your brain doesn't suddenly say, oh, I am allowed to find this particular is scene hot because it is consensual, politically correct and all that, but this other one, oh no, I'm not allowed to be turned on by that because of the circumstances behind it. The reaction is much more basic than that and certainly doesn't operate through some sort of moral filter.
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Perhaps your premise is correct for people who have a pathological lack of empathy. But for many of us, it's not going to be some ideological moral playbook that filters our response to non-consensual acts of violence vs. consensual acts of sexuality, it's going to be the desire and need of the victim.
love the brave but avoid cowards, knowing the gratitude of cowards is small ~Praxilla of Sicyon
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8 Feb 10, 10:02 PM
jstripes
UK(KT), 7 yrs
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Praxilla wrote:
jstripes wrote:
Your brain doesn't suddenly say, oh, I am allowed to find this particular is scene hot because it is consensual, politically correct and all that, but this other one, oh no, I'm not allowed to be turned on by that because of the circumstances behind it. The reaction is much more basic than that and certainly doesn't operate through some sort of moral filter.
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Perhaps your premise is correct for people who have a pathological lack of empathy. But for many of us, it's not going to be some ideological moral playbook that filters our response to non-consensual acts of violence vs. consensual acts of sexuality, it's going to be the desire and need of the victim.
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That's all very well if you're a top, but what about those of us who are subs/bottoms in these circumstances. Do we lack empathy because we imagine ourselves in these situations? In this case empathy just makes it worse because we feel empathy with our own desires and needs.
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9 Feb 10, 7:49 AM
BooteDom
UK(NR), 6 yrs
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I'm with jstripes on this.As regards tops/dom/mes yes it's quite possible that within a societal context that they are "bad" people,those who go out to rob,rape and injure others are just that.It doesn't alter the basic premise however that mostly these things are done within a consensual arrangement between two individuals.
Those who get off on the sight of that clip cannot actually do anything about it.Did I get off on it? No, but I found it interesting because I had not seen the results of such a caning before,mainly because I had not sought it out.
Would I do it to a sub? Possibly,but I wouldn't find it easy to carry on after the first strokes had cut open the skin,but if the subject really,genuinely wanted it that hard the buzz I might get from creating the scene for them would be quite powerful.Would that make me bad?
Last week I pushed a sub absolutely to the limit.I thought maybe over the limit but as they were hooded and bound to an overhead hoist it was difficult to tell.After the scene I asked for feedback,rate it out of ten I said.The answer, unhesitatingly was "eleven".I get quite a kick from that reaction. Edited 9 Feb 10, 7:51 AM by BooteDom
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9 Feb 10, 8:39 AM
sir_joe_sw
UK(TA), 2 yrs
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Greetings, a prison sentence may be "cushy" but I feel a good flogging dose the trick and is so much cheeper! |
9 Feb 10, 8:44 AM
MissP
UK(EN), 8 yrs
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jstripes wrote:
That's all very well if you're a top, but what about those of us who are subs/bottoms in these circumstances. Do we lack empathy because we imagine ourselves in these situations? In this case empathy just makes it worse because we feel empathy with our own desires and needs.
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That's a really interesting point, and one, as a top, that I didn't consider.
Purely from a personal POV, I didn't "get off" on watching the clip, but I was extremely interested in how the reciever dealt with the blows, the effect on his body etc. I don't know if that was valuable in relation to my own JPs, but I did find it interesting viewing.
www.thedivinemissp.co.uk
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