31 Jan 10, 8:28 PM
perra_diablo
UK, 3 yrs
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areyouok wrote:
Phew, at least it seems we all agree that penis sausage isn't on the menu this evening.
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** Hot Dogs ** special offer £1.20 |
31 Jan 10, 8:49 PM
x_flaire_x
UK(OX), 10 yrs
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Armin Meiwes killed and ate Bernd Brandes who consented to the act. Was this the 'limit' of consent? A healthy adult consenting to his own death and consumption by another.
Patrick Stubing and his sister have a sexual relationship and produce four children. Is this the 'limit' of consent? Is adult incest consensual?
Is consent everything?
f x Cookie Monster In Bondage!
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31 Jan 10, 9:12 PM
black_swan
UK(N), 5 yrs
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It seems there are a number of issues here around the issue of natural rights.
Do I own my own body? How completely? Is that right artificial (created by society, perhaps with constraints) or natural? What claims can others make against me to limit that freedom sometimes? Is it possible I own my body but am still constrained in my use of it? (I can own land, for example, but be constrained as to its use.) If I am sole owner, does my freedom to do anything I want to my body extend to third parties I ask to do things to me?
Suicide. Clearly, the debate on suicide is driven by cultural and often religious assumptions. The ancient world saw a place for rational suicide and Socrates remains a hero to many for not escaping (he had children and this argument was used to try and persuade him not to escape).
In the two recent mercy killings covered widely in the media the law (rightly) treated the killers very differently based on the issue of consent of the victim. The young woman could and did give consent; the young man hadn't. Her mother walked; his is in prison. So English law is perhaps moving (though not yet on BDSM) to consent as the driving principle.
ps Utilitarianism is full of holes so not conclusive in an argument.
"It isn't immorality - it's only habit." (The Moonstone)
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31 Jan 10, 10:18 PM
Manteau
UK(S), 2 yrs
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x_flaire_x wrote:
Armin Meiwes killed and ate Bernd Brandes who consented to the act. Was this the 'limit' of consent? A healthy adult consenting to his own death and consumption by another.
Patrick Stubing and his sister have a sexual relationship and produce four children. Is this the 'limit' of consent? Is adult incest consensual?
Is consent everything?
f x
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Who may have reflected on the wisom of that decision as he lay bleeding to death.... Nice...
Suffering becomes beautiful when anyone bears great Calamities with cheerfulness, not through insensibility but through greatness of mind.
Aristotle
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31 Jan 10, 10:20 PM
DaddysTouch
UK(RG), 3 yrs
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No. What men in all the world have shown such daring?
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31 Jan 10, 10:24 PM
Mr_Frost
UK(PL), 3 yrs
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Lady_Anna_Bradford wrote:
Sirebel wrote:
Is there a limit to consent?
Do you believe there should be limits to consent? Should the government protect people from harming themselves?
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In general no I don't. The government doesn't know what is best for us. They are there to run the country not pontificate about morals and my private business.
At the same time we know there are people who aren't of sound mind and are prepared to travel across continemnts to be eaten.
But where do you draw the line between a sound mind and a not so sound mind and who are we to measure?
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See I don't see that as a dilemma, I see it as natures way of weeding out the stupid from the gene pool.
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31 Jan 10, 10:24 PM
Outlier
UK(W), 2 yrs
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I see your point, but these are very extreme examples.
x_flaire_x wrote:
Armin Meiwes killed and ate Bernd Brandes who consented to the act. Was this the 'limit' of consent? A healthy adult consenting to his own death and consumption by another.
Patrick Stubing and his sister have a sexual relationship and produce four children. Is this the 'limit' of consent? Is adult incest consensual?
Is consent everything?
f x
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"I am from nowhere and everywhere" Karl Lagerfeld
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31 Jan 10, 10:25 PM
areyouok
2 yrs |
black_swan wrote:
...does my freedom to do anything I want to my body extend to third parties I ask to do things to me?
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I think this is critical. You taking an axe and chopping off your left hand is totally different to me doing so at your request. |
1 Feb 10, 9:27 AM
Sirebel
UK, 5 yrs
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woewoe wrote:
SinPar wrote:
woewoe wrote:
But of course, we can make a farce out of this discussion...
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Of course we can. You go first.
Sincerely. Make your best case for rough body plan being abuse or suicidal when it is consenting and sane adults who understand the risk and have made a free choice to play that way- explain to me just how dangerous I am and I'll listen. If you make your case well enough with something besides emotional assertions I'll step out of the conversation.
Otherwise we'll just agree to disagree.
SinPar
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Well, quite simple.
Person A, the dom (not you, so don't take it personally) has to break person B, the sub, a few bones. With a thick wooden stick... One or two legs maybe, an arm, lets say a few fingers as well... Consenting of course. Strictly. Person B likes it. Craving it. Person A likes it as well.  Power exchange!!!
So - let's give it a go! The NHS will fix it later on.
Person C (That's me *Waving hands*) says: This is a 'play' which has to be forbidden. By law! In fact: it is!
Person D (This is you, SinPar) could probably say: ????
Well, if you don't agree with person C, then you're right, then we just agree to disagree and shake hands...
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Who say the NHS should pay for fixing consensual harm? If you indulge in dangerous sports then you should fund it yourself (extreme sport insurance anyone?).
x_flaire_x wrote:
Armin Meiwes killed and ate Bernd Brandes who consented to the act. Was this the 'limit' of consent? A healthy adult consenting to his own death and consumption by another.
Patrick Stubing and his sister have a sexual relationship and produce four children. Is this the 'limit' of consent? Is adult incest consensual?
Is consent everything?
f x
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I think Armin and Bernd are adult enough to make their own decisions on this one. I see nothing wrong with assisted suicide or cannibalism. Incest is only "wrong" because of the genetic issues. There is nothing wrong with having sex with ones relatives for recreation (think about it, don't just react to the horror of it ). I would suggest that anyone who doesn't require society to pay (see above) for the consequences of these actions is free to do as they wish (not my kink, just for the record)
areyouok wrote:
black_swan wrote:
...does my freedom to do anything I want to my body extend to third parties I ask to do things to me?
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I think this is critical. You taking an axe and chopping off your left hand is totally different to me doing so at your request.
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How is it different? I don't know what's right and what's real any more
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1 Feb 10, 10:25 AM
FuerstvonBismarck
UK(BH), 2 yrs |
Sirebel wrote:
Who say the NHS should pay for fixing consensual harm? If you indulge in dangerous sports then you should fund it yourself (extreme sport insurance anyone?).
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see also anaiis ic site and die-erdbeerbowle.de (our adventures in the London and UK Fetish party scene) follow me on twitter
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