Abuse vs D/s. (94)

Did the OP of the FIRST thread say, at any point, "and if she says she's had enough of all this malarky and tries to leave, I'll lock the door and beat her black and blue"? As far as I can tell this dude's fantasy, or whatever the fuck it is, doesn't indicate any lack of consent on the part of his "victim".

Let me tell ya, a good number of the things I do to my cunt of a whorewife would be considered abusive by 99% of the population.

Edited 20 Jan 10, 9:40 AM by Hypnotist

So let's all be grown-ups and assume he intends this far-fetched fantasy for someone who consents, instead of making vague allusions to Joseph Fritzl as if vying for the attention of a talent-scout from The Sun.

I think what's really getting people's backs up here is the implication that the 'slave' won't actually like it. Well, some people enjoy not liking it. That's up to them. And since it's all blatantly a fantasy anyway, I think it is fairly hypocritical of people to condemn that fantasy, while acting out their own, often taboo, fantasies with other consenting adults as I'm sure he intends to do.

Naturally I have applied for the position myself and remain hopeful, despite the many gaps in my CV.

We broke up shortly after as he was a self obsessed pathological liar without empathy who treated women as possessions he could display. Whaddya know!? But this was evidenced by a ton of additional stuff not just this particular "use and abuse" kick that is the subject of the OP.

But I don't think any of it is particularly far fetched.

Especially since, unless I've completely misread it, it was willingly posted by the "victim" herself

cassie x

And please understand that I didnt want to be judgemental or leave the YourKinkIsNotMyKink idea. Really, to each their own. Whatever makes you happy.

But I totally failed to understand it, and it really made me sort of sick reading it.

What I was trying to adress, is the fact that it felt like abuse to me.... personally that is.

Mind you, not the physical part. But the mental part (as I was reading/interpreting it). So my question would be, if there is a line to be drawn, even if we are talking bout fully consenting adults.

For consent, IMO, at a certain point, really isnt a valid notion any longer. I know I've been at the point where consent as a notion couldnt be applied any longer. The point where your only choice is, to give up choice. You could argue that in doing that you actually do consent, but its a blurry area indeed.

So, what I was trying to adress is this: At what point do you personally have the feeling you are crossing the line between abuse and D/s? And, is this strickly personal, or is there some sort of common ground we all can relate to?

Also, bearing in mind that we regularly get the "I've been mistreated by this big bad Domly type" threads here. Do we need to inform people that there are in fact other POV's (even when posts are probably partly fictional/fantasy) when we see something that makes us feel uncomfortable or just let it be?

For I know Ive been kicked around as a newbee by people that were VERY confronting and thus able to get me off the CastleRealm cloud.... and the OnlyTrueWay thingie.. Im forever gratefull for that.

And perhaps, is there a difference in the people that adress WIITWD from a "kinky" or mere physical angle, or the ones that adress this from a D/s or mental POV?

I really dont mind any physical harm personally. After all I am rather masochistic, lol. I do, however, mind messing with someones brain in the name of obediance.

Again, disclaimer, I dont want to be judgemental. If a certain sort of dynamics does the trick for you, please be happy with it.

Edited 20 Jan 10, 11:08 AM by othyim

Provided the/a sub has consented to everything on it then it's not really for anyone else to judge.

There's nothing bordering on insanity (IMO) and aside form allowing random sperm on her face (which TO ME is a bit foolish), nothing that's dangerous.

I might have this completely wrong (and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I have) but don't submissives/slaves do things they don't particularly like to please their Dom/Master all the time?

I've read numerous times on IC of subs/slaves who don't like CP but who regularly take a beating to please their partner. Isn't that how it works for some subs?

I've also read of subs who don't like humilliation. But, again, they agree to it to please their Dom/Master.

If any sub who agreed to that was not getting her needs met from either the activities OR pleasing her Master then it's HER who's made the mistake by agreeing it. It's just as easy to read a list of requirements and say "no, that's not going to work and I won't do this, this or this.

I think there are very few who would get into a relationship that required them to take part in things that were going to bring them no pleasure or happiness (except perhaps an emotional masochists - in which case, again, that's a decision they make before they consent to the terms of that relationship).

In order to know virtue, we must first aquaint ourselves with vice - Marquis De Sade

I laughed heartily at that!

The line, not your misfortune.

For someone who claims they don't want to be judgemental, that's still one helluva statement!

I appreciate that you say it was the "mental" part which is perhaps something you're reading into what was written but can you actually put into words what it was that rang such alarm bells for you... because personally, and it seems I'm not the only one, I just cannot see it...

I get the impression that *you* believe you're courageously speaking out to highlight some unspoken and potentially dangerous situation... and if, indeed, this were proved to be the case... I'd be right behind you... but I keep trying and all I can see here is someone reacting in an extremely intolerant and judgemental way towards someone else's list of things they like (or imagine they would like) to do...

And that bothers me... because if "we", as folk supposedly attracted to this kinky stuff we do, can't even tell the difference between abuse and consent, then I really don't know how we could possibly hope to imagine we could explain it to anyone else...

cassie x

The list posted in the other thread was posted by the submissive. I think that indicates her consent. Maybe the list is over the top for many people, but it strikes me that being able to have a respectful and intelligent discussion about the desire for and impact of such obedience is one of the reasons we're posting here, rather than elsewhere. Yet, instead, we're discussing the possibility that something which is clearly consensual may be abusive. Doesn't that go to the core of why d/s relationships are so misunderstood? It's not a question of level, it's simply a question of willing consent.

Abuse is quite simply negated by consent. If the consenting adult doesn't understand the line between fantasy and reality and later regrets giving his/her consent, then the story is one of self-knowledge, personal responsibility and sorrow, not abuse.

If a person was forced to submit to acts s/he reviled, through force of brutality, emotional coercion, religious conviction, cultural discrimination, age or ability based helplessness, etc. that would be abusive. But I think the only consideration here is simply one of limits, with the understanding and expectation that we all draw that line in a different place.

ETA: While I personally would not consent to the list itself, I think a number of items on it are the stuff of some pretty hot fantasies. I've got to admire people who can go that far and keep their commitment to one another intact. I couldn't do it. More power to them if they can.

love the brave but avoid cowards, knowing the gratitude of cowards is small ~Praxilla of Sicyon

Edited 20 Jan 10, 1:17 PM by Thistle

With my first M, he had me learn the postions, had me dress for him, banned me from wearing underwear, used to share me sexually with his friends, used me even if I was not feeling paticular aroused, I was there for him, his pleasure, not my own, and it's that that got me turned on.

But it certainly wasn't an abusive relationship. But, think of it another way, a 'vanilla' would class every d/s relationship as being abusive, because they don't understand it, it feels to me that your just making the same presumptions!

td

"A masochist walked up to a sadist, and said 'Hurt me'. The sadist said 'No' and walked away."

Edited 20 Jan 10, 1:19 PM by TaintedDesire