20 Jan 10, 2:46 PM
Elysium
UK(EH), 5 yrs
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IndelibleMarker wrote:
Elysium wrote:
IndelibleMarker wrote:
Elysium wrote:
If you follow your logic, if a woman tried this with a dominant male, he'd overpower her and just rape her. Or, if he wants to stay within the law, he'd tell her and her golden snatch to go fuck herself and find a less manipulative person.
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Have a gander at the example I gave of an effective FemDomme technique again and bare in mind I say AN effective FemDomme technique - not the only effective technique. I'm not saying in the slightest that it only boils down to sexual denial - but I am saying that it is a method. A powerfully successful one at that.
I specifically mentioned that in the modern world a man using his physical strength to overpower a woman is illegal so that's not following my logic in the slightest. And staying within the law, yes, he might tell her to go fuck herself - meaning that they aren't suited for a D/s relationship because he is too Dominant. However, I think that that occurring would be surprisingly rare - though I admit I am basing that on a generalised character assessment, rather than any factual or statistical evidence.
The majority of men will most likely comply if it's brought in slowly and carefully enough - particularly if they have gone without sex for a while (perhaps the couple have been apart for work) and it is introduced as "a little game"...
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If the man is only complying to get his dick wet, is it really submission?
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Again - you're not following the example through properly. I go on to say that after it's been introduced the Domme can then push things further and away from being 'just a game' using a huge variety of methods like orgasm control, chastity, reward and punishment, tease and denial, chores, humiliation, objectification etc etc. NLP methods of anchoring and idea stacking can be brought in and over time it starts to become real in the submissives mind. They always have the choice to get up and walk out of course... But they choose not to.
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I think you can't manipulate someone into having the desire to please you and submit to your desires. The 60-70 year old behaviourist principles that NLP are based on, go extinct very quickly in human beings, due to our inherent adaptability. What that adds up to is that all the interesting little fun manipulations and training quickly fade if not constantly reinforced and you're left with someone who isn't really submissive to you because they want to be. You need that submissive basis, in a desire to please, in order to build upon it.
It's somewhat Dom/me power trip fantasy land to think otherwise. |
20 Jan 10, 2:49 PM
totallycoverme
UK(M), 4 yrs
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Wonky_Donkey wrote:
totallycoverme wrote:
Women - The Naturally Dominant Gender? Part 2
Can't believe that I only just saw the original thread for this but it certainly sparked my interest.
I would say that men are the naturally dominant gender in terms of how nature made them physically bigger and thus the protectors/fighers/hunters.
I do think that women think more methodically a lot of the time and there is a power that comes with this but as a woman, I have always felt submissive towards men. That's not to say that I submit to all men (duh lol) but when in the company of a guy, I certainly look up to him (not a height thing) to make me feel protected at looked after at the very least.
I don't see how women can be the dominant gender when nature made men physically bigger and thus more able to dominate. I know consensual bdsm happens in the mind in a lot of cases but if I think of the nilla dynamics I know, it's nearly always the man who wears the trousers.
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By that theory I must be a bloke then, seeing as im the same height as the average man in the UK.
Im also pretty strong too, down to doing a very physical job and my sporting activities.
Or im just a freak of nature.
My height or physical strength does not in anyway have any influence over my dominance over people, as we are well past the days of cavemen running around pulling people by their hair to get what they want.
Argh, its people like you who give us tall submissive girls a complex, that submissive women should all be short and dainty.
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eek sorry! I should add that I'm far from dainty and about 5'6. I just go for men who are bigger than me because I like how that makes me feel. I'm not saying I go for tall chubby men because I like to feel smaller in comparison, I go for them because I like to feel protected and I like big bear hugs lol It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice  xx
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20 Jan 10, 2:51 PM
totallycoverme
UK(M), 4 yrs
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IndelibleMarker wrote:
I think TotallyCoverMe is right that fundamentally, on average men are physically built as the Dominant gender - to protect, fight etc.
But as has been pointed out, times, they are a changing...
I'm going to outline below a basic but effective FemDomme training scene (I could throw in a huge amount more detail, but I don't have time!)... The reason I'm putting this in is to show that on average, men are actually more easy to manipulate and control psychologically in terms of their sexual needs and frustrations. This can be seen with the amount of erotic artwork and pornography aimed at men.
It is possible for a woman to capitalise on this more and more in society while males physical strength becomes less and less useful (in a sexual context, using their physical strength to overpower a woman without consent would be considered rape).
If within the context of a relationship, a woman takes a man and tells him she wants to play a sexual game, then takes him to the bedroom and lays him on the bed naked while she's fully clothed, after a subtle extended period of no sex with him...
This builds sexual tension and the concept of a "game" puts his defence mechanisms on hold because people naturally like the idea of games as they relate to fun. All this will mean he will be more compliant.
If she then rubs around his cock teasing him and tells him about her dominance, and how some things are going to "change around here" while slowly stroking him his horniness will rapidly increase. If she then puts her face close to his and begins kissing him, whispering in his ear but all the time pressing her knee up against his balls it'll be more likely to bring out a submissive side - and again, compliance.
At this point she can make him write an essay, or have him talk about the FemDomme lifestyle, but it has to come from him and it has to be about what he will do to please her. There also has to be a reward/punishment system in place for if it's good. eg - He isn't allowed to cum tonight but if it's good then he can cum tomorrow, if it's not good then he'll have to wait another day. Make him promise to behave. (powerful words like behave, obedience and phrases like "good boy" have a huge effect and at this point will be considered just a part of the game... But in time, they won't be any more.)
From then on things can rapidly change and be implemented using a similar system on a daily basis. eg Chores must be completed to give the woman pleasure, five orgasms for the women will allow him one. He can beg for sex, chastity can be used as can humiliation and regular punishments and rewards of tease, temptation, but usually denial.
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ah, now this I understand. I have friends who claim that they have a good understanding of how men work and as a result, seem to have mastered the art of getting what they want from men.
I have yet to decode men in a way that would enable me to seduce one. I am always (yet rarely lol) the seduced lol It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice xx
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20 Jan 10, 2:54 PM
totallycoverme
UK(M), 4 yrs
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IndelibleMarker wrote:
According to the Kinsey Institute, men in their twenties masturbate on average three to four times a day. Men in their fifties however average out at approximately once. However, you must remember the range is very large and only a small percentage are "average".
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Crikey! I probably take a week to do what a bloke my age does in a day. No wonder I am more attracted to older men. I find horniness attractive in men if it feels targeted and controlled but all out and random horniness of the "average" young man? wow! Don't think I could cope with that because I would worry that they would have their eyes all over the place on other women. It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice xx
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20 Jan 10, 2:56 PM
IndelibleMarker
UK(E), 6 yrs
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Elysium wrote:
I think you can't manipulate someone into having the desire to please you and submit to your desires. The 60-70 year old behaviourist principles that NLP are based on, go extinct very quickly in human beings, due to our inherent adaptability. What that adds up to is that all the interesting little fun manipulations and training quickly fade if not constantly reinforced and you're left with someone who isn't really submissive to you because they want to be. You need that submissive basis, in a desire to please, in order to build upon it.
It's somewhat Dom/me power trip fantasy land to think otherwise.
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I used to teach NLP and I've got 32 DVD's (four given to me by the company every 6 months updating me of all the new things being taught). But that's totally separate to all this.
The most predictable thing about people is their inability to accept their own predictability.
But OK, you need a submissive foundation to build on. You know, I agree, you're right. I just think I may be a little more open minded about the number of men who have that submissive foundation, and perhaps don't even know about it. Kisses to all you fabioso people!
Patrick
IM
(Next London U35 Munch Details)
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20 Jan 10, 2:59 PM
Elysium
UK(EH), 5 yrs
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totallycoverme wrote:
IndelibleMarker wrote:
I think TotallyCoverMe is right that fundamentally, on average men are physically built as the Dominant gender - to protect, fight etc.
But as has been pointed out, times, they are a changing...
I'm going to outline below a basic but effective FemDomme training scene (I could throw in a huge amount more detail, but I don't have time!)... The reason I'm putting this in is to show that on average, men are actually more easy to manipulate and control psychologically in terms of their sexual needs and frustrations. This can be seen with the amount of erotic artwork and pornography aimed at men.
It is possible for a woman to capitalise on this more and more in society while males physical strength becomes less and less useful (in a sexual context, using their physical strength to overpower a woman without consent would be considered rape).
If within the context of a relationship, a woman takes a man and tells him she wants to play a sexual game, then takes him to the bedroom and lays him on the bed naked while she's fully clothed, after a subtle extended period of no sex with him...
This builds sexual tension and the concept of a "game" puts his defence mechanisms on hold because people naturally like the idea of games as they relate to fun. All this will mean he will be more compliant.
If she then rubs around his cock teasing him and tells him about her dominance, and how some things are going to "change around here" while slowly stroking him his horniness will rapidly increase. If she then puts her face close to his and begins kissing him, whispering in his ear but all the time pressing her knee up against his balls it'll be more likely to bring out a submissive side - and again, compliance.
At this point she can make him write an essay, or have him talk about the FemDomme lifestyle, but it has to come from him and it has to be about what he will do to please her. There also has to be a reward/punishment system in place for if it's good. eg - He isn't allowed to cum tonight but if it's good then he can cum tomorrow, if it's not good then he'll have to wait another day. Make him promise to behave. (powerful words like behave, obedience and phrases like "good boy" have a huge effect and at this point will be considered just a part of the game... But in time, they won't be any more.)
From then on things can rapidly change and be implemented using a similar system on a daily basis. eg Chores must be completed to give the woman pleasure, five orgasms for the women will allow him one. He can beg for sex, chastity can be used as can humiliation and regular punishments and rewards of tease, temptation, but usually denial.
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ah, now this I understand. I have friends who claim that they have a good understanding of how men work and as a result, seem to have mastered the art of getting what they want from men.
I have yet to decode men in a way that would enable me to seduce one. I am always (yet rarely lol) the seduced lol
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I'd eat you for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Not in a good way either. You should take things really slowly with any prospective dominants. |
20 Jan 10, 2:59 PM
totallycoverme
UK(M), 4 yrs
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Ms_Tytania wrote:
Elysium wrote:
Most women, including most dominant women love being fucked by a real cock. With so much of the femdom universe focused on denial and objectification of women as domme fantasy robots. A lot of femdom ends up denying women and pleasing men. I really think femdom is blurred through a really fucked up misogynistic lense. As most of it is motivated by male fantasy, not female desire.
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You are spot on. If you look at femdom websites, the pictures show very attractive women - not Dommes, but models, chosen by their looks and not by their sexual preference, playing with men. The men in the pictures are almost always distinctively in contrast with the women's attractiveness: older, unfit, ungroomed.
The message is clear: men, who created the site, and for whom the site was also created, want to feel reassured in a fantasy where Goddesses will fancy them, regardless of their level of attractiveness. They feel threatened by the presence of younger, pretty men. Femdom, the way we see it in 99% of websites and clubs, is a mysoginistic, male creation, by the boys, and for the boys only.
When I've turned up at a club or event with a pretty boy on tow, the men accused me subtly you having them 'because they are easy prey". Well, not as easy as someone who knows he's well over the hill, believe me. Of course, the pretty boys remind the not so pretty older men, that we have a sex drive and sexual needs and wants, but they can't be satisfied by any old tom, dick and harry. And that hurts, because it's truly emasculating and disempowering, and *not* in the make believe sense they've grown used to from watching too many femdom websites.
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in this respect, maybe young submissive men get more action than older dominant men from female dommes but as a female submissive, i would be sooooo much more likely to go for the older man as a dominant because I'm attracted to the attributes that come with men (usually/hopefully) of an older age It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice xx
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20 Jan 10, 3:06 PM
Elysium
UK(EH), 5 yrs
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IndelibleMarker wrote:
Elysium wrote:
I think you can't manipulate someone into having the desire to please you and submit to your desires. The 60-70 year old behaviourist principles that NLP are based on, go extinct very quickly in human beings, due to our inherent adaptability. What that adds up to is that all the interesting little fun manipulations and training quickly fade if not constantly reinforced and you're left with someone who isn't really submissive to you because they want to be. You need that submissive basis, in a desire to please, in order to build upon it.
It's somewhat Dom/me power trip fantasy land to think otherwise.
|
I used to teach NLP and I've got 32 DVD's (four given to me by the company every 6 months updating me of all the new things being taught). But that's totally separate to all this.
The most predictable thing about people is their inability to accept their own predictability.
But OK, you need a submissive foundation to build on. You know, I agree, you're right. I just think I may be a little more open minded about the number of men who have that submissive foundation, and perhaps don't even know about it.
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I never even alluded to how many men I think have the potential for submission. So, I don't know what you're basing that statement on.
It is somewhat contradictory to state in the same breath that men are primarily motivated by their own cocks, and then state that a majority of them have a latent desire to put their partners pleasure above their own, no?
I studied Psychology at university. Though, strangely, they've never sent me any DVD's. |
20 Jan 10, 3:14 PM
IndelibleMarker
UK(E), 6 yrs
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Elysium wrote:
IndelibleMarker wrote:
Elysium wrote:
I think you can't manipulate someone into having the desire to please you and submit to your desires. The 60-70 year old behaviourist principles that NLP are based on, go extinct very quickly in human beings, due to our inherent adaptability. What that adds up to is that all the interesting little fun manipulations and training quickly fade if not constantly reinforced and you're left with someone who isn't really submissive to you because they want to be. You need that submissive basis, in a desire to please, in order to build upon it.
It's somewhat Dom/me power trip fantasy land to think otherwise.
|
I used to teach NLP and I've got 32 DVD's (four given to me by the company every 6 months updating me of all the new things being taught). But that's totally separate to all this.
The most predictable thing about people is their inability to accept their own predictability.
But OK, you need a submissive foundation to build on. You know, I agree, you're right. I just think I may be a little more open minded about the number of men who have that submissive foundation, and perhaps don't even know about it.
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I never even alluded to how many men I think have the potential for submission. So, I don't know what you're basing that statement on.
It is somewhat contradictory to state in the same breath that men are primarily motivated by their own cocks, and then state that a majority of them have a latent desire to put their partners pleasure above their own, no?
I studied Psychology at university. Though, strangely, they've never sent me any DVD's.
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I taught NLP as a job at a London company. I studied Engineering at Uni. 
Well, I'm saying it because I think that most men will react surprisingly positively to a FemDomme lifestyle. You said they need the foundation, I'm saying I think that most people, even in the vanilla world, do have the foundation - even if they're not aware of it/ready to admit it.
But I'm interested to hear other peoples opinions on that. Kisses to all you fabioso people!
Patrick
IM
(Next London U35 Munch Details)
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20 Jan 10, 3:16 PM
totallycoverme
UK(M), 4 yrs
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Elysium wrote:
totallycoverme wrote:
IndelibleMarker wrote:
I think TotallyCoverMe is right that fundamentally, on average men are physically built as the Dominant gender - to protect, fight etc.
But as has been pointed out, times, they are a changing...
I'm going to outline below a basic but effective FemDomme training scene (I could throw in a huge amount more detail, but I don't have time!)... The reason I'm putting this in is to show that on average, men are actually more easy to manipulate and control psychologically in terms of their sexual needs and frustrations. This can be seen with the amount of erotic artwork and pornography aimed at men.
It is possible for a woman to capitalise on this more and more in society while males physical strength becomes less and less useful (in a sexual context, using their physical strength to overpower a woman without consent would be considered rape).
If within the context of a relationship, a woman takes a man and tells him she wants to play a sexual game, then takes him to the bedroom and lays him on the bed naked while she's fully clothed, after a subtle extended period of no sex with him...
This builds sexual tension and the concept of a "game" puts his defence mechanisms on hold because people naturally like the idea of games as they relate to fun. All this will mean he will be more compliant.
If she then rubs around his cock teasing him and tells him about her dominance, and how some things are going to "change around here" while slowly stroking him his horniness will rapidly increase. If she then puts her face close to his and begins kissing him, whispering in his ear but all the time pressing her knee up against his balls it'll be more likely to bring out a submissive side - and again, compliance.
At this point she can make him write an essay, or have him talk about the FemDomme lifestyle, but it has to come from him and it has to be about what he will do to please her. There also has to be a reward/punishment system in place for if it's good. eg - He isn't allowed to cum tonight but if it's good then he can cum tomorrow, if it's not good then he'll have to wait another day. Make him promise to behave. (powerful words like behave, obedience and phrases like "good boy" have a huge effect and at this point will be considered just a part of the game... But in time, they won't be any more.)
From then on things can rapidly change and be implemented using a similar system on a daily basis. eg Chores must be completed to give the woman pleasure, five orgasms for the women will allow him one. He can beg for sex, chastity can be used as can humiliation and regular punishments and rewards of tease, temptation, but usually denial.
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ah, now this I understand. I have friends who claim that they have a good understanding of how men work and as a result, seem to have mastered the art of getting what they want from men.
I have yet to decode men in a way that would enable me to seduce one. I am always (yet rarely lol) the seduced lol
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I'd eat you for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Not in a good way either. You should take things really slowly with any prospective dominants.
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See I regret to say that I'm not even down with the kids enough to totally understand what you mean when you say you'll eat me for breakfast.
My knowledge of youth lingo tends to expire around the point at which things were totally rad and tubular dude! It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice xx
Edited 20 Jan 10, 3:17 PM by totallycoverme
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