The life blood sucked out (49)

I am sure there are some Doms and subs out there on both sides, actually: in classic co-dependency terms 'Addict' (fix me) subs and Enabler ('I'll fix you') Doms of course; but there may also be Addict 'fix me' Doms [ok wannabe Doms] (you're such a stupid slut, how could anyone be happy with minimal efforts you're making?) and Enabler subs ('I'll fix everything Master, don't worry Master, if only I turn myself inside out to be the lowliest most subby sub ever, you'll be happy then Master, just you see, I'll fix everything for you).

You are assuming it's a problem. Some people would be quite happy with this (not me but YKIOK, right?) They would replace one source of pride with another, self-reliance with externally-focussed reliance and be very happy for both changes.

I think for you (and for me as well) the crux comes down to the highlighted words. These are traits you value in yourself and would not want to see taken away (ditto).

So then we, or I at least have a very real concern. We see that this could happen to us, because we see that other people can get trapped into a codependent or abusive relationship. It happens more easily than some people on here seem to realise. Most people don't come with flags on their head saying 'codependent' or 'abuser' or 'just plain all around selfish delusional arsehole'. Some do admittedly, but most don't. You can't be sure you see the trouble coming, some people hide very well what they are and the bad guys can be high flying, high achieving, and very highly functional as well as charming, disarming and overwhelming you with their absolute love and adoration for how just perfect you are in every way. In fact, that's more or less a standard list of traits for the classic psychopath!

That happened to me, and in my case I hated it. It wasn't a true D/s relationship though, just a classic abusive one. Through my 'abusee' lens (I really must put it down one of these days) the above to me screams abuse and/or debilitating co-dependency. I know some people might find it an idea of heaven, but I'd rather wonder why they weren't then vibrating with a little inner happiness, wantedness, contedness, belongingness. Plus I worry what happens if their dom gets run down crossing a busy road, will they still be able to cope on their own?

Anyway you asked a question and although the thread has wandered off, and even though mine was an abusive rather than a true D/s relationship I'm going to answer it anyway.

It took a *lot* of time and serious psychiatric intervention to prop up the other party [(overcompensating) 'strong' and needy flavour wannabe Dom] sufficiently that I could, with a lot of space and support, gently but firmly scrape them off. I needed counselling as well.

We dropped the D/s element early on, by my necessity: as soon as I realised what a danger he was I just couldn't hold to my promise a moment longer. It hurt to take my word back; he released me from it by my petition but mainly because every nerve in my body was constantly screaming that I couldn't obey blindly someone who was such a danger. Even he could see that I couldn't cope, so that was dropped. He still thought he was the perfect person to run my life and reinforced at every turn that I was unable and incompetent to do it for myself. I totally disagreed (on every count), but constant repetition, sleep deprivation, long exhausting lectures, arguments and diatribes in constantly highly charged emotional environments shook my sense of self worth down to almost non-existent. (You've seen those documentaries on cults and how they re-program people? That works in r/l as well). I knew it was abusive but you can't hold out forever and he isolated me from all my friends early on. I was too ashamed to ask them for help anyway. Most of my family thought he was a total wonder and pressured me to marry him and move in with him. I only succeeded in escaping at all because I *could* and *did* put land mass and an ocean between us at every possible opportunity to allow me to recentre, and luckily for me there were lo-o-ong periods of time when I could do that. (He was a doing a PhD in a foeign land and I stayed here, hiding behind caring for an elderly relative). I daren't think how it could have turned out otherwise. The other saving factor was that, with all their faults, my parents (and my friends) had given me enough self-esteem and understanding of right and wrong that there was a tiny tiny stubborn inner core of self belief that was always there, even if I couldn't always access it. The sad thing was, he wasn't a bad person per se, just very, very (mentally) ill. Once I realised that, it became much easier to understand that the problem was his not mine, to stay on a plateau of calm whilst dealing with him, to lead him to see that he needed help, and that fixing him was outside my scope or skill. (then when he got to the psychiatrist and was eventually stable, I got myself a counsellor and ran like the self preserving rat that I was.

I wouldn't recommend the above approach to anyone else. My advice? To you and me and others who feel the same way. Keep your centre, check all truths against your internal reference and if it seems wrong: it is wrong - wrong for you, wrong for now or wrong with that person. Trust yourself first and foremost. Use your friends as a sanity reference, do not allow yourself to be separated from them. Finally, if you get stuck in a similar dynamic, D/s or not: realise that the person needs help and you can't give it, you can't fix a person who doesn't want to be fixed, no matter what you do. You can support them to fix themselves, but if they keep mysteriously not getting better, get out. By the same token no-one can fix you unless you really want to be 'fixed' (take an honesty check at this point please!). Don't go into a relationship where you are hoping to get your issues 'fixed' unless you are planning to do at least 95% of the work yourself, and if you're willing to do that, consider whether you really can't just do 100% of it yourself and then go get the relationship - trust me, it will be much more fun that way.

always good to play safe

And all men kill the thing they love, By all let this be heard, Some do it with a bitter look, Some with a flattering word, The coward does it with a kiss, The brave man with a sword!

Mmmmmmmm. Sucking people's life blood out of them. mmmmm.

There is more than one way to skin a cat but there is only one try per cat

Yes, i was once with a younger "Domme"/girlfriend who was kinda like a vampire, she sucked out all my energy and left me with a low self esteem, it was a wee while after i was rid of her (though she did the dumping) that i started to feel much better. These days she seems to wait until i'm back on my feet to bring me down again, the joys of having a child with someone like that i guess.

"The true man wants two things: danger and play. For that reason he wants woman, as the most dangerous plaything." ~Friedrich Nietzsche

"The true man wants two things: danger and play. For that reason he wants woman, as the most dangerous plaything." ~Friedrich Nietzsche

something I've not really thought of before but the categories you describe certainly make sense to me based on my own experiences and observations. Perplexing in a good way are the types you suggest because although I'm not one for putting things in boxes and using labels, I do think that in this instance there is a lot of usefulnes through truth that occurs with the types suggested here

ETA: regarding the lifeblood sucked out theme, the worst experience I have had as a submissive is that of not feeling good enough no matter what I try to do to be pleasing...it's just the worst feeling because it feels like I'm not successfully filling my role as a submissive or indeed as a partner who is being pleasing. Eurgh! yeah, not a nice feeling.

I'm ok with being the "fix me" sub because I do like to be nurtured and guided but as part of that, I am an assertive "fix me" sub because I think to be anything other than that could be very dangerous (i.e. you have to be aware of who and what actions will truely help you in life vs those which will just fuck things up for you)

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice xx

Edited 12 Feb 10, 11:51 PM by totallycoverme

The good news is that the power to survive is in your hands.

The power to give is in your hands.

The power to take away is in your hands.

Keep the power and give with confidence and strength.

To be a good submissive takes both power and strength of character.

Find yourself first before giving to anyone else.

The Commander

ps. The reply by nilla-in-the-woods is brilliant and has all the elements of self survival needed. Read and re-read.

Edited 14 Feb 10, 3:42 PM by CommanderBondage

That.... plus: How can there be any power exchange when there is no power left?