Kink Vendors : feasability of a new market? (53)

Having been one of the people who started the BFE (bristol fetish fair) AKN as SWAMP I can give a little advice on this one. YES you have to inform the council.(only if the following applies) A Sex License should only be required if more than 10% of the goods on sale are R18 films / Viabrators or Dildos / Pornographic Litrature. Therefore you have to monitor what your traders are selling (at least for the first 6 months.)

Good Luck if you need a chat drop me a memo and I shall send you my Tel number there is a lot I can tell you.

Regards Phil

Ask a question and be a fool for 5 minutes! Never ask a question and be a fool for life! . A blind person who sees is better than a seeing person who is blind.

Edited 18 Jan 10, 7:35 PM by MasterPhil_uk

Shouldn't be too hard to ensure that the number of clothes pegs on sale outnumber everything else by a factor of ten.

Is that a real law - its amazingly braindead. Selfridges could have an enormous sex toy section with impunity

And all men kill the thing they love, By all let this be heard, Some do it with a bitter look, Some with a flattering word, The coward does it with a kiss, The brave man with a sword!

Sage advice from Phil regarding licensing.

I'll add a bit more to this, since licensing has dominated (no, not in that way) most of the efforts of AITA (Adult Industry Trade Association), of which I am a member. Also the trade rag, Erotic Trade Only did a FOI request of 50 councils in the last 2 issues covering licensing

so here goes . .

under local government regs, each licensing authority is responsible for licensing sex establishments (a sex cinema, sex shop etc). The Video Recordings Act 1984 (currently illegal, but due for reinstatement later this month when it passes thru the lords) states that R18 dvds can only be purchased from a licensed sex shop.

so a license will be needed if hardcore movies are being sold (downloads fall under the remit of ATVOD and not BBFC so are something seperate).

for sex toys a license is required if it accounts for more than a percentage of the turn over. this is the sticky bit, there is no defined percentage, in bristol it may be 10% in another local authority it might be 25%. some online sex toy sellers don't need licenses, others do, it depends on the local authority. the percent of sales is also technically of the company that sells them, not the event.

Erotica for example is licensed so no under 18's but you can buy sex toys and r18 dvds (and to sell them you need to have x amount of floor space and the license fee is built into that).

your best bet is to have a meeting with a licensing officer of the local authority in the area that you are thinking of having the event. he will tell you if you need a license or not and what percentage can be sex toys (calling them adult novelty products is not a viable work around) can be sold etc. You also need to have the venue on your side too as they need to be happy with the nature of the clientele etc.

be advised licenses are many thousands of pounds and the application fees are due with the application and are not always 100% refundable

hope that helps and doesn't scare you

nick

Vidi Vici Veni

Perhaps it might be worth considering one three or four times a year, instead of every month? People are not likely to go and buy a load of stuff every month, but they might save up for something they really wanted if it came along less often.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world. - Anne Frank

though all are fetish or bdsm related, few are actually sexaully related, ie dildos, strap ons, etc.

If we can manage to do this with a minimum of sexual toys, and a wide selection of other things, then it stands a chance of success.

I also agree that a periodic market would be better than a monthly one. perhaps four to six a year, no more.

It is never going to be easy to get this going, however, there are a number who say they are interested.

we need a central person who is willing to stand up and sort it out. if they do, and can get the vendors to agree, then there should be no reason why this canot be a going thing.

The same could be said of the LAM and the LFF. Which would remove the BBB's uniqueness.

Science, the only religion that works even if you don't believe in it.
Women wanted, preferably with their own Rohypnol.

the great thing is with all three is that there is some crossover traderwise but each market has traders that only trade at one market, and some do one london and birmingham, etc

also traders vary slightly from month to month

and of course each market has its strengths and its weaknesses

Vidi Vici Veni

I too would agree talking to the council/licensing authority would be the place to start if anyone wants to start a new market. We looked into starting one several years back in Sheffield and this was the stumbling block for us. The wording of the law is so obtuse it does not specify sex toys and R18 videos - as well as the percentage, the items themselves are open to the council's own interpretation. The wording includes items that are for force or restraint therefore if the council wishes to take this literally (as Sheffield did at the time) it can include restraints, handcuffs, gags, blindfolds, harnesses, whips, paddles, crops, floggers, straight jackets, sleep sacks, etc! So not many fetish business could trade if we held a market without paying for a full sex license, which was many thousands of pounds.

There may be a council somewhere north of Birmingham that will take a more generous view, or some sort of venue that already has a license for it's own events/wares. But good luck finding it! I would recommed looking for that as the starting point rather than looking into the other factors in too much detail for anyone looking to set up a market.

Freak is 6 years old as a full time fetish business. www.freakclubwear.co.uk See us at the LFF and BBB every month and Erotica in November.

Having gone through the start up of LAM a few years ago I can confir with much of the advice in the thread. Its not quite as simple as if you start it they will come.

I would advise you start with the licensing and market traders department at the local authority. It is not just the sex license issues you need to look as its also sometimes required to have a license for simply holding a market style event regardless of what is being sold.

Falling fowl of either of these can either close your event promptly or stop it from getting off the ground in the first place. We actually found that with the LAM two of the things that worked very much in our favor were the community supporting aspect of the project and the educational aspect of the workshops.

Starting quarterly might be the answer by coordinating with an established club night so people will make a weekend of it and may be drawn from other parts of the UK. I know a lot of people make the extra effort when you get a few good clubs on the same weekend as the LAM and therefore the chance to have fun between the Friday night and the Monday morning.

If you are interested in following the community supporting model that we have please drop me a memo and I will arrange a time to chat it through.

Good luck though.

David

London Alternative Market - the place to be on the first Sunday of the month
www.MasterCosmic.co.uk

The other big 'AND' that your missing is that to get the needed numbers through the gates of Manchester, there has to be other stuff too. London doesn't suffer that as there's always other stuff (and lff and LAM have attached events anyway). The only Manc events that come anywhere close to this in numbers are the Lash/Manc Munch weekends - so unless there is cooperation with both of them it will fail. In fact I would go further than that and suggest that if this hypothetical market isn't co-joined to the MM its pretty doomed - Manchesters' munch scene is already far to close to the size of the market, and adding another independent event will not help.

People always say that. Believing them is why businesses fuck up (often)

And all men kill the thing they love, By all let this be heard, Some do it with a bitter look, Some with a flattering word, The coward does it with a kiss, The brave man with a sword!