Dignity in O&P (6)

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Tanos
Posted by Tanos on Fri 30 Oct 09, 1:53 AM

Dignity is not a very fashionable concept now. You might be thinking it's a stuffy word or even pompous. But its use in the O&P Manifesto is about self-respect and having personal standards, rather than about self-importance.

I think it would be hard to find another word that breaks down into as many worthwhile virtues as "dignity". Some people have used "honour", but that's even more ambiguous with some of its negative associations including self-importance or a tender pride that must be defended.

O&P uses dignity, and the need to avoid undignified behaviour, as guiding principles for owners and dominants to promote the stability and proper functioning of the household and its interactions with people outside. Maintaining dignity requires the avoidance of lying, cheating, lack of effort, or breaking one's word. It also means not compromising on one's own freedom, including making oneself dependent on others because of lack of self-discipline, and not compromising one's self in the face of resistance from submissives and social pressures from outside the household. In short, it is beneath an owner or dominant's dignity to engage in unworthy behaviour.

These are high standards to strive for, but how do you see these concepts in relation to D/s and M/s?

Regards,

Tanos

Edited Fri 30 Oct 09, 8:51 AM by Tanos

Replies

30 Oct 09, 10:52 AM
TheFalconer
UK(S), 5 yrs

After commenting the other week that you didn't mention Dominants much in the manifesto when talking about structure, I actually think that this section has the opposite problem. As written, this is all about Dominants, and I don't think that's entirely fair. Many of the dignified behaviours you describe here are entirely applicable for submissives too, even if we do make them behave in a rather undignified manner from time to time...
"Morality, like art, means drawing a line someplace." - Oscar Wilde

31 Oct 09, 4:10 PM
socair
UK, 4 yrs

Tanos wrote:
.
These are high standards to strive for, but how do you see these concepts in relation to D/s and M/s?
Regards,
Tanos

I do agree that in a society where instant gratification is so often the goal concepts such as dignity, integrity, and yes honour, are sadly uncommon.
Not too many people actually want to become involved with lying, lazy, or manipulative, individuals and some of the above strikes me as simply being a decent person. However if individuals are going to own another person their decency becomes even more important.
These standards may sound high to some people but if so then they probably aren't suited to being fully responsible for themselves, let alone someone else

"Character, like a photograph, develops in darkness".

31 Oct 09, 4:19 PM
socair
UK, 4 yrs

TheFalconer wrote:
After commenting the other week that you didn't mention Dominants much in the manifesto when talking about structure, I actually think that this section has the opposite problem. As written, this is all about Dominants, and I don't think that's entirely fair. Many of the dignified behaviours you describe here are entirely applicable for submissives too, even if we do make them behave in a rather undignified manner from time to time...
None of us want to be with someone who lies or breaks promises regularly and I see some of the Dignity part of the manifesto as simply being a decent human being. But other areas of behaviour are subject to personal preference aren't they? What comes to mind right now are dominants who like “a challenge” and would be unlikely to enjoy a submissive who was particularly compliant. For others obedience may be a goal and “a challenge” a bit of a nightmare.
As someone new to the concepts of M/s and ownership I could be well off base here, but isn't it up to individual dominants to stipulate the behaviour of their own submissives?

"Character, like a photograph, develops in darkness".

23 Nov 09, 5:35 PM
De_Luxe
UK, 4 yrs

socair wrote:

TheFalconer wrote:
After commenting the other week that you didn't mention Dominants much in the manifesto when talking about structure, I actually think that this section has the opposite problem. As written, this is all about Dominants, and I don't think that's entirely fair. Many of the dignified behaviours you describe here are entirely applicable for submissives too, even if we do make them behave in a rather undignified manner from time to time...
None of us want to be with someone who lies or breaks promises regularly and I see some of the Dignity part of the manifesto as simply being a decent human being. But other areas of behaviour are subject to personal preference aren't they? What comes to mind right now are dominants who like “a challenge” and would be unlikely to enjoy a submissive who was particularly compliant. For others obedience may be a goal and “a challenge” a bit of a nightmare.
As someone new to the concepts of M/s and ownership I could be well off base here, but isn't it up to individual dominants to stipulate the behaviour of their own submissives?

Yes, it is but I think 'dignity' might have to be taken in context. Something, or some things, might be difficult, or they might have a volatile temperament that gets away from them, but they could still be being truthful about their desire to submit, or be owned.
Personally, when I know what I'm asking for genuinely takes a huge effort that effort really is appreciated. To me it would not be undignified of the submissive to fail when clearly they were making a best effort.
However, knowing they have to phone the dominant later in the day a submissive might remember, but not actually bother, to charge their mobile phone. In that case I think it would be undignified not to make the effort and lie about not having had time to charge their phone.

26 Nov 09, 8:30 PM
x_flaire_x
UK(OX), 8 yrs
The wonderful Raven Kaldera quoted this line from a book on the Dignity in O&P thread on TSR.
"If you are a lady's serving maid and the two of you are at the market, it is beneath her dignity to carry the basket, and it is beneath your dignity to let her."
I find it quite inspirational. A submissive can have as much dignity as a Dominant (or maybe as much dignity as the Dominant is willing to let them have!).

f x

Cookie Monster In Bondage!

Edited 26 Nov 09, 8:31 PM by x_flaire_x

27 Nov 09, 9:59 AM
Belasarius
UK(M), 6 yrs
Y!
I have made her a promise: "Whatever i do with you or too you, it will never be at the expense of your dignity". This isn't just to reassure her. It is also because I am so damned proud to have her on my arm and dignity in the face of adversity can also be damned erotic (I recall, at an early age getting quite unnecessary feelings watching a movie of Edith Cavell going to her execution - don't worry darling, I intend nothing terminal).
She is mine - and her dignity requires she show that, appropriately to her circumstances. It has begun to seem to me that my responsibility, not to lead to her shame, and hers (to be the best she can be) lie at one minute to midnight and one minute past, on the same clock.
And dignity is relative too - Ensuring her confident sang-froid demands quite different standards in the street, at home with D/s friends, at a munch, playing in public, dogging, etc.
But, She knows dignity is something i require and encourage, it is not a price i have paid for her submission. That was her gift.
Patience is bitter - but its fruit is sweet.
Follow me on twitter: @belasarius99


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