Consent in O&P (4)

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Tanos
Posted by Tanos on Fri 16 Oct 09, 12:06 AM

I think that every consensual D/s or BDSM framework needs to spell out how it deals with consent because of the role consent plays in setting boundaries to the dominant's power. This raises the question of where the requirement for consent comes from: is it an axiomatic, foundational principle which is just agreed on; does it derive from, say, concepts of human rights; or does it come from something more fundamental?

I believe that the acknowledgement of property, especially private property, is a universal part of human nature. Some cultures may disagree about what can be property, but they all agree that some things are property. For instance, a nomadic tribesman may consider that land cannot be owned by anyone, but he's very clear who his knife belongs to, and if you steal it, he and any bystanders will agree with the justice in him recovering it by force. Moreover, this applies equally well to Stone Age hunters with flint knives, and people in their kitchen today with carving knives.

Whether or not you agree that the right to your own property is a universal ethical principle that derives directly from human nature, I hope we can agree that as O&P is defined in terms of property, it's natural to use property rights (of whatever origin) as its ethical foundation.

The manifesto then derives consent from there. People are born owning themselves, under the guardianship of parents. As adults, people have the right to hand over some or all of their self-ownership. Respect for property rights requires that O&P must be entered with the freely given informed consent of the submissive.

One advantage of this approach is that it is deeply respectful of people's self-determination. This is in contrast to cases like Spanner, where the European Convention on Human Rights allows governments to nanny their citizens, including imprisoning them for some kinds of consensual BDSM done on their own bodies.

Regards,

Tanos

Replies

16 Oct 09, 8:44 PM
TheFalconer
UK(S), 5 yrs

I think it's interesting the way you're getting very different characters of replies here and in the other places where you're posting these threads. I read this this morning and thought you were unlikely to get many comments on this one as it's fairly basic and fundamental, but then I clicked over to TSR and I see there's actually been a bit of debate.
Naturally consent is important. I understand what you're trying to do in linking it to property rights vis a vis your manifesto, but ultimately where it's derived from is less important than the simple fact that it exists and is granted.
"Morality, like art, means drawing a line someplace." - Oscar Wilde

16 Oct 09, 10:48 PM
Tanos
UK(M), 12 yrs
Y!

TheFalconer wrote:
I think it's interesting the way you're getting very different characters of replies here and in the other places where you're posting these threads. I read this this morning and thought you were unlikely to get many comments on this one as it's fairly basic and fundamental, but then I clicked over to TSR and I see there's actually been a bit of debate.
I started off cross-posting so people would see them whichever site they use most. But it's ended up showing up how different the sites are in tone (or maybe just the first reply sets the tone!)

Naturally consent is important. I understand what you're trying to do in linking it to property rights vis a vis your manifesto, but ultimately where it's derived from is less important than the simple fact that it exists and is granted.
Yes
Regards,
Tanos
www.tanos.org.uk
Personal ad: "D/s relationship, perhaps 24/7"
O&P on IC: Possession. Ownership. Consent. Responsibility. Respect. House. Dignity. Authenticity. Structure. Rituals.

29 Oct 09, 6:25 PM
Belasarius
UK(M), 6 yrs
Y!
Our dynamic is based on this:
She possesses herself
she chooses what to give to me, having at least made a strong effort to understand what I require and to see whether she can provide it.
Once it is agreed that any aspect of her person or behaviour is mine she loses all rights to refuse.

Best to all.
Patience is bitter - but its fruit is sweet.
Follow me on twitter: @belasarius99

27 Nov 09, 12:39 PM
De_Luxe
UK, 4 yrs

Tanos wrote:

TheFalconer wrote:
I think it's interesting the way you're getting very different characters of replies here and in the other places where you're posting these threads. I read this this morning and thought you were unlikely to get many comments on this one as it's fairly basic and fundamental, but then I clicked over to TSR and I see there's actually been a bit of debate.
I started off cross-posting so people would see them whichever site they use most. But it's ended up showing up how different the sites are in tone (or maybe just the first reply sets the tone!)
Regards,
Tanos

I frequent IC and TSR roughly equally as the site tone is different. My posts often reflect that I tend not to want to interrupt a train of thought on a topic so I post something that is comparable if possible.
My Regards,
D.
Edited 30 Nov 09, 5:21 PM by De_Luxe


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