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Tags: Stoke-on-Trent (ST)
I have a close friend ~ someone I used to teach for many years ~ who is in her 60's now and has had just one of the shittest life's going in anyone I have ever known 
Although I had to live through my mother dieing of cancer she was a very strong woman and had had a great life (according to her) BUT to sit and watch someone you are close to dieing and wasting away before your eyes and knowing what a life she has suffered makes you think God has a real sick sense of justice.
She is an Irish woman and grew up in rural Ireland being starved, beaten, bullied and finally put in asylum for many many years all because she was DEAF.
This abuse and being locked up went on for too many years till she finally managed to get away and moved to England ~ only to meet a man who whom she married but who abused her in all manner of ways ~ and not in ways we here would think acceptable.
A good few months ago she was diagnosed with bowel cancer and has undergone every treatment going including major surgery that has left her needing to wear a bag and all the indignities that goes with that.
But .... she is dieing according to the Doctors ~ but according to her "God will either protect her on earth or in Heaven". Why would someone going through all that in her life even turn to God when God seems to have let her down so many times and ignored her own plight on so many occasions ~ it's beyond me to see that kind of suffering in anyone.
Granted she has grown children to help look after her and support her but in her words "she doesn't want them to see her like this". That in itself shows me she has more strength in her little finger than I think I have in my whole body.
The point I am trying to ramble onto is this ~ just how do you sit back and watch someone fade away and die?
Not seeking sympathy as it's not me that needs any ~ not seeking answers as truthfully there are none ~ not seeking any abuse for writing this as it's not intended to wind anyone up ~ just wanted to get it out of me onto a page so I can try and make sense of it more and be that little bit stronger for her when I go and see her again very soon.
But ... it still makes me question whether there is a God ~ suffering so much in one person through no choice of their own is simply not justified
| 8 Oct 09, 3:15 PM Max_Bedroom 5 yrs |
I am sorry for your friend. The trouble with this blog is that it could well run away with the age old theist debates. I gave up on the idea of a god a long time ago - and one of many reasons is that if he should exist, why is he so cruel? Yeah, I know, god works in mysterious ways, and there are eternal rewards to be had in heaven - yada yada yada - but that doesn't explain why there is so much pain and suffering along the way. Perhaps the thought that she will be rewarded is very comforting to her - I think this comfort explains a lot about religious beliefs in general. For all my militant atheism - I wouldn't want to try and convince someone like your friend that there is no god. It sounds like she needs him, whether he exists or not. I believe in the certainty of chance. | |
| 8 Oct 09, 3:21 PM hailstone UK(HD), 9 yrs |
I look around in the shitty world day after day and see the horrors and ask this same question frequently. But to those who are devout, there is and he is there with them, and heres the best bit, in their times of trouble they believe he is carrying them. Yup we are all entitled to our belief's. Life is crap sometimes, you just have to be there for those who are within reaching distance and try to hold them up a little. flogged, fisted, figged, fingered and fucked... there's your element of kink.... oh my! | |
| 8 Oct 09, 3:49 PM HarmCandy UK, 4 yrs  |
I too am sorry to hear about your friend. Do not pity her, though. It is true that she has lived a hard life: But hardship imparts resilience. Don't judge the course of her life. Instead, leave that to her, for she's the one who has lived it. 'Observe the turmoil of beings, but contemplate their return... Returning to the source is serenity.' For my part, I venture that there is no God. We are all part of nature, which forms part of something else, thence proceeding to something we don't and ultimately cannot know. The Chinese Buddhists call it Tao. You can find its manifestations wherever you look. H 'It is the centaur! Chiron, halt! And let me speak with you. You taught and formed, with wisdom, strength and grace, the greatest heroes of a hero-race. In their noblest footsteps you have trod, and lived the hard life of a demigod.' Edited 8 Oct 09, 3:51 PM by HarmCandy | |
| 8 Oct 09, 4:24 PM BadWulf UK(TA), 6 yrs |
As a devout atheist  I can only second max's views. I hope she can find some comfort in her beliefs and get some enjoyment out of the time that remains to her.An interesting post. I hope it doesn't deteriorate. - wulfy My, what sharp teeth I have. | |
| 8 Oct 09, 4:51 PM Lj_switch UK, 3 yrs  |
the difference between a believer and an atheist is faith. Once you have faith, you do not need justification for your belief. I am an atheist, all my life. At times, I envy those with faith, but I have seen no justification that I would consider sufficient to change my atheism. But no-one should try to change the mind of someone with faith, firstly because it is a pointless exercise, and secondly it works for them. I hope your friend keeps her faith and that it comforts her. | |
| 8 Oct 09, 5:34 PM MarcusStrapp UK(CB), 7 yrs |
Funny, I would say the exact opposite. Faith is exactly what the believer and the atheist have in common. One has faith that God does exist and one has faith He does not exist. Neither position can be proved. Only the agnostic differs by having a lack of faith. As to the OP, making sense of life and death I guess is very personal. Being a faithless agnostic I have had to find my own way to handle that too. For my hear-after, loved ones are not gone, until they are entirely forgotten. As for pain and suffering, I have nothing to add. Life can be so bloody unfair. My best wishes. The @Fetish_Photo_Album A free and private flickr group for IC members to share dirty pictures! | |
| 8 Oct 09, 5:48 PM Doghouse_Reilly UK(MK), 6 yrs |
I think it's mildly insulting to say that an atheist has faith there is no God. Faith is hope, it's gut feeling, it's nothing. The atheist has science, fact, evidence, the lack of consistency in the alternative arguments and the fact that God is a fictional character in a book to base his or her atheism upon. Faith is no part of that. Faith is what you've got when your beliefs are utterly groundless. It is also worth bearing in mind that there are thousands of Gods that mankind has created over the millennia. The difference between an atheist and the most ardent Christian is that a Christian only disbelieves one less god than the atheist. If expressed as a percentage of gods denied to exist Christians and atheists are as close as makes no odds. As to the wider question of is there a God and if so why is he such a dickhead, I'm reminded of a quote from some very clever ancient dude whose name escapes me. To paraphrase as I forget the exact words... If God is all powerful yet allows bad things to happen to good people, then he is malevolent. If he does not have the power to stop bad things happening to good people he is insignificant. Pretty much covers it all. If it ever turned out that God was real the first priority of mankind ought to be killing the evil preening motherfucker. All that is required for the triumph of evil is for Chuck Norris to change sides. Edited 8 Oct 09, 5:51 PM by Doghouse_Reilly | |
| 8 Oct 09, 5:53 PM Cassius UK, 3 yrs |
Hmmm...surely an agnostic admits to simply not knowing. A Gnostic is one who has spiritual knowledge; the "a" prefix makes it the opposite, so it means "one who has no knowledge of spiritual things".....ane who presumably would be glad to know one way or the other,so that s/he can adhere to whatever truth there is.Any blind faith is IMHO(and incidentally in St Paul's opinion too)is dangerous..... but if a faith is a comfort to an individual,I would not try to undermine it. As an agnostic,that has a 50% chance of being that Truth.....and I am no gambler! Practise senseless acts of beauty. | |
| 8 Oct 09, 6:26 PM HarmCandy UK, 4 yrs |
I'd like to point out that atheistic models of understanding and explanation are similar to religious ones in the respect that they are models. Frameworks through which we can comprehend what goes on. The atheist ones differ because they are rooted in empiricism. But even empiricism has tenets which are as unprovable as certain religious doctrines. While naturalism may be appealing, understand that science will always cast a shadow which no 'null hypothesis' will ever do away with. Something'th edit of the day. My grammar today is terrible. H 'It is the centaur! Chiron, halt! And let me speak with you. You taught and formed, with wisdom, strength and grace, the greatest heroes of a hero-race. In their noblest footsteps you have trod, and lived the hard life of a demigod.' Edited 8 Oct 09, 7:23 PM by HarmCandy | |
| 8 Oct 09, 6:27 PM Lj_switch UK, 3 yrs |
To say that "Faith is what you've got when your beliefs are utterly groundless." insults the faithful, because "groundless" is close to saying it is rubbish. I disagree with any justification of faith because faith does not need proof. I just don't see any need for faith in a god. You also have to bear in mind that science is based upon hypotheses which are proven by experiment. A single negative, from a correctly run experiment, disproves the hypothesis. So all the "proof" that science has for the existence of a god would collapse if a god actually demonstrated his or her presence. This may seem unlikely, considering the evidence so far. But a good scientist does not discount the possiblity that they are wrong, merely that they have put a up a good case that they are right.
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