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A question of Legality ... (26)

This post is on the BDSM Activism web board.

Tue 29 Sep 09, 11:46 AM
ToakReon*
UK(RH), 12 yrs

I saw a sight that made me wonder about the legal definition of "public decency" and would be most interested to know if anyone knew sufficient about the subject to offer a view.

The sight I saw was a young lady. She wore little, black ankle boots with high heels.

Other than that, she wore a skin-tight catsuit with a high neck and long sleeves, of a colour that almost precisely matched the skin tones of her face and hands.

At close distance you could see the zip fastener running down her back, the absence of nipples and pubic hair and, indeed, at VERY close distance you could observe the weave of the cloth on her catsuit and its collar and cuff lines ... yet at any appreciable distance, I would say in excess of 20 feet or so, she looked COMPLETELY naked except for her little, black boots.

I later learned that she had worn that outfit in public as a wager and that a "worthy cause" (I believe the Cat's Protection League - but I might be wrong) was going to be £500 better off as a result.

I'm wondering about the legality of this outfit. Surely, as she was entirely covered in opaque cloth, she would have to be considered "clothed" and decent. Certainly, had the catsuit been black, blue, red or some other "obvious" colour, I don't think there could have been any doubt whatever about the matter - she was actually more "covered" than many a young woman who walks about in public.

And yet it seemed obvious that her intention was to appear UN-clothed.

Could she have been arrested and charged with public indecency?

Toak

FEMALE, BONDAGE-FRIENDLY MODEL SOUGHT. I am seeking to update my "How To" shibari bondage pictures (see my profile pics, the clothed blonde tied in red and black) with a model more "enthusiastic" about BDSM, and who is happy to be photographed nude. MEMO ME if this is you.

29 Sep 09, 11:54 AM
SirOpenSource
UK(E), 6 yrs


I would imagine the cat protection league would take legal advice first but you never know.

SOS

I believe in equality for everyone, except reporters and photographers. - Mahatma Gandhi
www.Londonmunch.co.uk
Londonmunch@hotmail.com - Enquiries

29 Sep 09, 12:04 PM
ToakReon*
UK(RH), 12 yrs

SirOpenSource wrote:
I would imagine the cat protection league would take legal advice first but you never know.

SOS

The Cat's Protection League might not know anything about it. One person says "If you wear THAT in public, then I'll give £500 to Cat's Protection", the other says "Yeah, OK!", the outfit is worn and the Cat's Protection League receives a cheque without knowing any of the background behind it.

Toak

FEMALE, BONDAGE-FRIENDLY MODEL SOUGHT. I am seeking to update my "How To" shibari bondage pictures (see my profile pics, the clothed blonde tied in red and black) with a model more "enthusiastic" about BDSM, and who is happy to be photographed nude. MEMO ME if this is you.

Edited 29 Sep 09, 12:07 PM by ToakReon

29 Sep 09, 12:11 PM
Lady_Anna_Bradford
UK(BD), 5 yrs

Being naked in public isn't a crime so no, she couldn't, unless the courts could prove she intended to upset or distress.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8235959.stm

"If no sexual offence is being committed it seems very odd indeed that there should be an offence for having an image of something which was not an offence," Lord Wallace of Tankerness
http://www.ladyanna.co.uk/ http://www.clips4sale.com/store/26308 http://ladyannadominatrix.c4slive.com/

Edited 29 Sep 09, 12:12 PM by Lady_Anna_Bradford

29 Sep 09, 12:14 PM
ToakReon*
UK(RH), 12 yrs

Lady_Anna_Bradford wrote:
Being naked in public isn't a crime so no, she couldn't.

Good lord, really? I thought there was a campaign by the naturist community a while back where they were risking arrest by appearing nude in public trying to achieve a legal right to be unclothed in public places.

Toak

FEMALE, BONDAGE-FRIENDLY MODEL SOUGHT. I am seeking to update my "How To" shibari bondage pictures (see my profile pics, the clothed blonde tied in red and black) with a model more "enthusiastic" about BDSM, and who is happy to be photographed nude. MEMO ME if this is you.

29 Sep 09, 12:19 PM
Purvection
UK(M), 8 yrs


ToakReon wrote:
Lady_Anna_Bradford wrote:
Being naked in public isn't a crime so no, she couldn't.

Good lord, really? I thought there was a campaign by the naturist community a while back where they were risking arrest by appearing nude in public trying to achieve a legal right to be unclothed in public places.

Toak

Lady Anna is right. It's only an offence to be nude in public where public decency is offended. That's why the Naked Rambler has been repeatedly arrested on his walk to John O'Groat's, because he has been (allegedly) deliberately provocational with his nudity. It depends entirely where you are and the reason why you have no clothes on. And interpretation of the law by local police officers. The naturist community has a fight on its hands precisely because if they were to go about their shopping, church attendance and pints in the pub, they *would* be offending a lot of people. Unlike nudity on a designated beach, for comparison.

29 Sep 09, 12:23 PM
ToakReon*
UK(RH), 12 yrs

Purvection wrote:
ToakReon wrote:
Lady_Anna_Bradford wrote:
Being naked in public isn't a crime so no, she couldn't.

Good lord, really? I thought there was a campaign by the naturist community a while back where they were risking arrest by appearing nude in public trying to achieve a legal right to be unclothed in public places.

Toak

Lady Anna is right. It's only an offence to be nude in public where public decency is offended. That's why the Naked Rambler has been repeatedly arrested on his walk to John O'Groat's, because he has been (allegedly) deliberately provocational with his nudity. It depends entirely where you are and the reason why you have no clothes on. And interpretation of the law by local police officers. The naturist community has a fight on its hands precisely because if they were to go about their shopping, church attendance and pints in the pub, they *would* be offending a lot of people. Unlike nudity on a designated beach, for comparison.

Which then leads to the question, even if this young lady was believed to have worn her "attire" in such a manner that public decency WAS "offended" (not sure she was, mind you - I, for one, didn't find her offensive), would the fact that she was actually fully covered apart from face and hands have afforded her a cast iron defence?

Toak

FEMALE, BONDAGE-FRIENDLY MODEL SOUGHT. I am seeking to update my "How To" shibari bondage pictures (see my profile pics, the clothed blonde tied in red and black) with a model more "enthusiastic" about BDSM, and who is happy to be photographed nude. MEMO ME if this is you.

Edited 29 Sep 09, 12:24 PM by ToakReon

29 Sep 09, 12:24 PM
Wiley_Kit
UK(PE), 7 yrs

They havent been called CPL for years, they are just Cats Protection now.

(Sorry for being anal, but used to work for them as a supervisor at a cattery, used to grate on me people calling us CPL!)

Anyway, hope it was for them, they deserve the money :-D

I can't believe I've no control
It's all deranged - Bowie
"Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music."

29 Sep 09, 12:25 PM
AstronautMikeDexter
UK(E), 2 yrs
Doesn't someone have to have complained in order for any chance of a successful a conviction? That is it's not enough for the police to make a judgement call about whether or not you're offending public decency.

--- Ha!

29 Sep 09, 12:26 PM
ToakReon*
UK(RH), 12 yrs

Wonky_Donkey wrote:
They havent been called CPL for years, they are just Cats Protection now.

(Sorry for being anal, but used to work for them as a supervisor at a cattery, used to grate on me people calling us CPL!)

Anyway, hope it was for them, they deserve the money :-D

Toak <- stands corrected - or at least would stand corrected except for the fact that I'm sitting down. Please, in all of the above postings, read "Cat's Protection League" as "Cat's Protection" ... :-p

FEMALE, BONDAGE-FRIENDLY MODEL SOUGHT. I am seeking to update my "How To" shibari bondage pictures (see my profile pics, the clothed blonde tied in red and black) with a model more "enthusiastic" about BDSM, and who is happy to be photographed nude. MEMO ME if this is you.

29 Sep 09, 12:27 PM
Wiley_Kit
UK(PE), 7 yrs

ToakReon wrote:
Wonky_Donkey wrote:
They havent been called CPL for years, they are just Cats Protection now.

(Sorry for being anal, but used to work for them as a supervisor at a cattery, used to grate on me people calling us CPL!)

Anyway, hope it was for them, they deserve the money :-D

Toak <- stands corrected - or at least would stand corrected except for the fact that I'm sitting down. Please, in all of the above postings, read "Cat's Protection League" as "Cat's Protection" ... :-p

Well I know you like to correct others postings from time to time, so I though you would like to know ;-)

I can't believe I've no control
It's all deranged - Bowie
"Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music."

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