Punishment. Period. (36)

This is how I see it but from the dominant perspective. A very simple process designed to be effective and deter the sub from further rule breaking with no ritual, faffing or palaver.

24/7 subs and slaves can and do live similar lives, it is only the concept of 'ownership' which separates them.

Does anyone with a background in education or learning theory have a view on whether physical punishment is an effective and appropriate way for adults to learn lessons? Perhaps appropriate for some adults to learn certain lessons?

Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est. http://www.informedconsent.co.uk/posts/226772/

I have only ever been punished once and it was not nice, trust me! but hands up I did deserve every bit of it even if it was hard to sit for a few days.

The highest fences we have to climb, are those we have built within our mind

Theories of Development Hear are four major developmental theoriests in EdPsych. They are:

* Piaget * Vygotsky * Erikson * Kohlberg

Piaget

Piaget's theory centers on the idea that children are active and motivated learners. He advocated what is known as "cognitive constructivism," meaning that students create their own meaning through interaction with the environment. He theorized that learning occurs through a process of assimilation and accommodation as students continually seek for equilibrium. However, he also hypothesized that cognitive development can only occur as cognitive maturation is achieved. His four stages of development are:

* Sensorimotor * Preoperational * Concrete operations * Formal operations

Vygotsky

Vygotsky believed that learning is a social process, hence his theory is referred to as "social constructivism." He believed that language, particularly self-talk and inner speech, plays a major role in learning. Major applications of Vygotsky's theory to education include the Zone of Proximal Development, scaffolding, guided participation, apprenticeship, and peer interaction.

Erikson

Erikson's theory asserted that everyone experiences a series of "psychosocial crises" as they mature. In other words, everyone has certain emotional hurdles to overcome. How they overcome those hurdles can affect their personal development. The stages of Erikson's theory are:

* Trust v. mistrust * Autonomy v. doubt * Initiative v. guilt * Industry v. inferiority * Identity v. role confusion * Intimacy v. isolation * Generativity v. stagnation * Integrity v. despair

Kohlberg

Kohlberg's theory takes aim at the development of moral reasoning. In other words, how do children think about moral situations? He advocated teaching moral reasoning through the presentation of moral dilemmas. His stages are as follows:

Level 1: Preconventional morality

* Stage 1: Punishment-avoidance and obedience * Stage 2: Exchange of favors

Level 2: Conventional morality

* Stage 3: Good boy/good girl * Stage 4: Law and order

Level 3: Postconventional morality

* Stage 5: Social contract • Stage 6: Universal ethical principle

But while doing my training i enjoyed reading skinner and pablos work, hears one example:

Experimental and conceptual innovations

This essentially philosophical position gained strength from the success of Skinner's early experimental work with rats and pigeons, summarised in his books The Behavior of Organisms (1938) and Schedules of Reinforcement (1957, with C. B. Ferster). Of particular importance was his concept of the operant response, of which the canonical example was the rat's lever-press. In contrast with the idea of a physiological or reflex response, an operant is a class of structurally distinct but functionally equivalent responses. For example, while a rat might press a lever with its left paw or its right paw or its tail, all of these responses operate on the world in the same way and have a common consequence. Operants are often thought of as species of responses, where the individuals differ but the class coheres in its function--shared consequences with operants and reproductive success with species. This is a clear distinction between Skinner's theory and S-R theory.

Skinner's empirical work expanded on earlier research on trial-and-error learning by researchers such as Thorndike and Guthrie with both conceptual reformulations – Thorndike's notion of a stimulus-response 'association' or 'connection' was abandoned – and methodological ones – the use of the 'free operant', so called because the animal was now permitted to respond at its own rate rather than in a series of trials determined by the experimenter procedures. With this method, Skinner carried out substantial experimental work on the effects of different schedules and rates of reinforcement on the rates of operant responses made by rats and pigeons. He achieved remarkable success in training animals to perform unexpected responses, and to emit large numbers of responses, and to demonstrate many empirical regularities at the purely behavioural level. This lent some credibility to his conceptual analysis. Relation to language

hope it all makes sense

The highest fences we have to climb, are those we have built within our mind

Interesting that, having read this, I can identify a lot of my own traits in what you say.

If I've been disobedient I feel guilty for letting Mistress down, to the point that she has had to tell me to stop beating myself up (that is, after all, her job). I've still a way to go to rid myself of that behaviour to get to the point you mention. Where it is up to Mistress to decide on any or further punishment.

As an aside, I always learn more about myself when I read these threads, thanks to everyone for sharing.

Ah but your self-punishment shows me you truely are sorry for what you've done and it is worse punishment than anything physical I would give you. In the early days when you weren't 'beating yourself up' over a misdemeanor it was necessary to show you the error of your ways. Now, any slip is inevitably followed by an "oh fuck, I messed up", usually before I can say anything on the matter.

To me it's now not a "I'm going to get punished for that" reaction that makes you apologise, it's a much deeper feeling that you've let me down. To punish on top of this would not be fair, you reach the goal of punishment by yourself, which is to learn not to repeat the behaviour.

From personal experience I can so tell you that when you're punished by H you'd have to be one stupid eejit to do the same thing again. So in my case it is remarkably effective.

(I think maybe- just maybe, I may have worn something in bed twice in umpteen years. (I'd love to wear clothsies in bed- I'm a cold reptilian thing and I love to be snug and smelly.)

It's probably entirely inappropriate with respect to being morally defensible, but then we already knew that.

(I do operate on a "never find me up my own bottom and I get bored with peeps with their heads up theirs" level- which is easier to describe as shallow. In - depth isn't me.)

And Misery's The River Of The World Misery's The River Of The World Everybody Row! Everybody Row! Misery's The River Of The World Misery's The River Of The World Everybody Row! Everybody Row! Everybody Row! Everybody Row! Everybody Row!

The only time I have ever been publicly punished was for driving in a bus lane. H said - public offence - public punishment. It was absolutely bloody mortifying.

And Misery's The River Of The World Misery's The River Of The World Everybody Row! Everybody Row! Misery's The River Of The World Misery's The River Of The World Everybody Row! Everybody Row! Everybody Row! Everybody Row! Everybody Row!

omg you missed out Maslow! How could you!

<puts fingers down froat

Holtist synd

And Misery's The River Of The World Misery's The River Of The World Everybody Row! Everybody Row! Misery's The River Of The World Misery's The River Of The World Everybody Row! Everybody Row! Everybody Row! Everybody Row! Everybody Row!

I think you missed out the key parts of Skinners work, that most of his 'training' success came from positive reinforcement, and he empirically regarded negative reinforcement (punishment) as unpredictable. It's largely his studies and other results from behaviourism that ultimately led to punishment being dropped for children in schools.

(ps, it sounds like you've been studying something equivalent to the OU's child development module).

- Chris

This is my voice, my weapon of choice

Edited 16 Jul 09, 9:30 AM by Backdooruk