A Moral Question (92)

Client: 'As a man I could have you under the Trades Descriptions Act!'

From the League of Gentlemen

'We cannot choose what we are, yet what are we but the sum of our choices?'

I still see it as a discussion about where lines are to be drawn, and trying to get lines drawn by other people to be in the same place.

If a TG has had gender reassignment, has a new birth certificate that declares she is female and is legally female, the "misrepresentation, dishonesty and deceit" may only be in other people's heads. It doesn't make it less real for those people, but it's totally unrealistic to expect someone to change their behaviour because you don't like it (unless you're their Domme!)

At the end of the day, PDs are only successful if they get clients - and each client makes their own decision based on their own needs/experiences/beliefs. PDs that I know have a very strong support network (e.g they share information etc), moreso than submissives IME. Implementing a 'disclosure' policy (instead of talking to each other, as is done now) should include *all* PDs and *all* surgeries/enhancements, or it's unfair.

The PD that is being discussed here will either not get customers because people don't like her, or she will.

Caveat emptor n all that.

judy

I must be only one in a million (© David Bowie)

If you turned up and someone did (or didn't) have breast implants and that wasn't quite what you wanted then you'd put it down to bad (unlucky) experience and carry on sessioning. If you came across a TS PD and found out after the fact (and that wasn't what you wanted) it could put you off sessioning for a longer time.

As Lady Anna said earlier most of us would be too polite/embarrassed to ask the question and my feeling is that, in this instance, the onus is with the PD to mention it on her website. I don't know if it's a moral question or not but I'd take a guess that a number of TG PDs will be aware of the impact this could/does have on subs

I'd be interested to know (given that you'd like to know whether or not any serious possible partner of yours was transgender) if you actually do (or would) ask the question of any prospect

Edited 25 Jun 09, 1:54 PM by lisal

I don't doubt that for the vast majority of submissives it will be a very big deal indeed, and I'm not suggesting that they are wrong to feel that way. But unless there is going to be some sort of overseeing body or quality control I don't really know what can be done about it...and I'd guess that people don't want someone else, in an official capacity, to decide who should and shouldn't be a PD or what they should say/reveal? The grapevine seems to work very well and clients are still left to make their own choices.

WRT my own relationships, I've never had any doubt that they've always been male. If I *did* have doubts, or they told me that they were TG, I wouldn't enter a relationship with them. If I *didn't* have doubts, i.e there's no way I can tell, I don't really see what difference it would make to me because I wouldn't know (I very much doubt that scenario would ever happen though, because of the type of men that I'm attracted to/by).

So no, I wouldn't ask - but I also wouldn't complain that they hadn't told me.

judy

I must be only one in a million (© David Bowie)

Edited 25 Jun 09, 2:03 PM by JudyInDsGuise

If personA has a reasonable expectation that personB would want to know, and personA claims to be in a profession (rather than a trade, for example), then personA should inform personB (ie their client, not just their customer.)

This is in Professionalism 101, and how you sleep soundly at night knowing you're not in Sales

In this case, it's clear that the potential clients/customers that are speaking up would want to know.

Regards,

Tanos

www.tanos.org.uk
www.bridgewood.org.uk
www.twitter.com/ukTanos

Edited 25 Jun 09, 2:14 PM by Tanos

No-one's suggesting a professional body - just that in the PD situation the general feeling is that a TS PD should be open about it on her website. Of course, it can't be enforced - we all realise that

As to the grapevine - that's an okay answer but there's an awful lot of subs who visit PDs who are not on message boards etc and are isolated so won't have that access to the information. I know - I used to be one!

The question in your (unlikely I know) scenario is how you would feel somewhere down the line if you found out that the person you were living with was a TG? You hadn't been able to tell but they had kept it from you.....

Edited 25 Jun 09, 2:18 PM by lisal

It's that "reasonable expectation" bit though. Two different people might have two different reasonable expectations. Professionals in my life (ok not plumbers ) don't have a reasonable expectation that I need to know their history regarding their previous professions, so they don't tell me. It might, however, be really important to *me* that I know, so isn't the obligation on me to ask rather than on them to reveal if that's the case?

I have asked professionals [that I've seen as a client] who they've worked for previously, as that as been important to me (but not to them). Neither of us are in the *wrong* unless one of us lies about it when asked.

judy

I must be only one in a million (© David Bowie)

Same way I would feel about anything else probably - I'd take into consideration anything that's happened during our relationship and weigh it against what happened before our relationship.

I can't give a blanket answer to that though, because by then there will be emotions and other factors involved.

It would also depend on if he said "HAHA I've been deceiving you, nerner!" or "I hate that I had to be less than straightforward with you; here are my reasons..."

judy

I must be only one in a million (© David Bowie)

judy

I must be only one in a million (© David Bowie)

But it is highly possible that you would find out some other way - not from him - and that is what, at least, part of this thread is about