A Moral Question (92)

Why is this thus? What is the reason for this thusness?
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I have read this thread with great interest as over the last decade I have had many many male subs telling me that they had visited PDs who had not made it clear they were transgendered and they had felt a whole range of emotions about this, most of them , what one would term, negative.

Sometimes male subs visit PDs not only for the session itself but for the ability to hang their erotic fantasies regarding submission off of the woman they visit. they enjoy fantasising about being her slave/sub all the time and live out a rich fantasy existence in their heads which helps them cope with some of the deficiencies in their real life. For men like this, it can be quite devastating to discover that the woman they sessioned with and dreamed of was not in fact a biological female but a post op transexual. To them, it is not the same.

My transexual maid, who is one of my closest friends, says she knows what she has achieved is not being a 'real' woman but is as close as can be achieved medically. She constantly mourns the fact she could never have children, or menstruate or go through the menopause, things she feels are evidence of real physical womanhood. She knows she is 100% mentally a woman but in her view will never be what she really wanted or what is a true woman.

So, there is a split even amongst transgendered people as to how they feel about themselves and what makes them feel real or unreal.

ON to PDs who are TG. I think that I take the view a PD should be absolutely honest about what they are offering and so should accurately describe their facilities, height, body shape, clothing preferences, activities performed so a sub knows what he is consenting to.

Whilst I don't think it is immoral for a TG PD to hide her transgender status, I think it is on the whole inadvisable. A sub may well want a biological woman or may want a TG woman but they should be given the choice to make for themselves.

Edited 24 Jun 09, 10:21 AM by MistressKeene

There are some transsexuals that tend to lose touch will reality once they have had the Op. Your maid seems to have kept a firm grip on reality.

There was a thread on a TG forum I frequent some time ago, started by the male partner of a transsexual. It discussed levels of passabilty ranging from one to five. One was basically just walking down the street. Even I can pass at that level most of the time. Level five was in bed. It was generally agreed that very few can pass at level four which was intimate interaction not involving sex, and even less at level five.

There are too many visual clues. Hands, Adam's apple, brow, gait, voice etc. Get one of them wrong and people will start looking deeper for other clues and before you know it a conclusion is drawn that may not be the one you want. More than a few transsexuals has ended up down a back alley after trying to convince a man she was all female only to discover too late that she couldn't.

Interestingly the term transsexual was originally coined to describe someone that was a post Op MtoF. Before the Op you were are transvestite, after a transsexual. These days the definition has been shifted and your are a transsexual as soon as the decision is made to have the Op and post Op you are all female. A dangerous position to take if you are going to get involved in intimate relationships with men, and a PD/client relationship is an intimate relationship even without any overt sexual activities taking place.

As others have said, there is a sizable market for Transexual PDs. There is really no need to try and pass yourself off as something you are not.

Susan Williams

I have had a client who had suffered a great deal because he had a session with someone who he first thought was a genetic female, part way through the session he realised the PD was in fact TS.

He was extremely badly effected as it brought back for him an event in his childhood concerning sexual abuse. He told me it took him a year to actually recover from the session. The look of relief on his face when he finally met me in person was a picture - it had taken a great deal for him to be able to trust a PD again.

He was a nice guy who just went along, paid his money and part way though the session he got a shock. He left feeling very bad indeed simply because he had no idea the person was not a genetic female to begin with.

He said it had never even entered his head that this person could be anything other than a female until it was too late, so naturally he didnt ask beforehand.

I would urge any TS TV to inform their prospective client at the earliest opportunity to save any upset on either side.

Edited 24 Jun 09, 3:57 PM by Mistress_Lady_Julia

I possibly should have entitled this thread "An Ethical Dilemma" but, to me, the question of honesty is a moral one.

Despite some peoples' perceptions of themselves, I do believe that circumstances where money changes hands require an even higher level of honesty and diclosure than might be required in a more personal relationship (i.e between a couple who are dating). I don't believe that men should need to ask whether a lady was genetically born a female (for want of a less clumsy way of saying it); I believe that the PD should be honest from the off.

As has been stated by several people, TSs attract a large following, as do TVs. Why the need to hide it?

I do feel that men in general have a different attitude to transgender than most women, although that is by no means an all-inclusive statement, so please don't bite my head off! Women also seem to be more attuned to whether a person is a genetic female than men. Therefore, it is imperative that people who are taking money for whatever services should be up front to avoid possible unpleasant scenes.

Very interesting to read all your opinions, thank you

Some people are like slinkies ... they don't really have a purpose, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs
Some people say I'm a bitch, that's just not true - I have the heart and soul of a kind and gentle person ... in a jar, on my desk, next to my cane.

There's a difficult balance to be found. At what stage would a TG/TS mention it? At what stage if any could a potential partner ask? And might asking cause offence to a person whose gender had been consistent through their lifetime?

Clearly this knowledge is more important to some than to others. In a way I'd like to respect their right to know and also the TG/TS's right to present as they choose.

There are plenty of other matters relating to one's history which one doesn't advertise but would reveal at some point in a developing intimate relationship. E.g. medical matters which may have an ongoing significance, past relationships - including highs and lows and how and why they ended, family matters, etc etc. I would see gender hstory in that light, though perhaps revealed quite early compared to some of those.

Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est. http://www.informedconsent.co.uk/posts/226772/

I remember one of the first sessions with a ts - I grabbed her hair, like you do, and it all came off in my hands! Was a rather good wig. Ooops, silly me. Rather embarrasing for all concerned, though we laughed it off, or rather, back on again, and carried on.

I am also aware that sometimes the transition can take time and go through several stages, so there can be certain practical matters relating to that.

And, it has to be said, sometimes, ts/tv people like to talk about the whole thing, it can be a very important issue for them, so one has to be aware of that. With one, all we did the first time was talk.

But I am talking about subs more than pro-dommes, so maybe not so relevent. But it was things like that I had in mind when I said 'pretty much' blind to it

Why poison your liver when I could eat it for you?
The antidote to whinge threads...?

This thread is about professional subs and dommes etc, not personal relationships.

A TS should either say so on her site or inform the client when he books. Easy.

"If no sexual offence is being committed it seems very odd indeed that there should be an offence for having an image of something which was not an offence," Lord Wallace of Tankerness
http://www.ladyanna.co.uk/ http://www.clips4sale.com/store/26308

If someone asked me if I was a TS I think I'd be really pissed off.

"If no sexual offence is being committed it seems very odd indeed that there should be an offence for having an image of something which was not an offence," Lord Wallace of Tankerness
http://www.ladyanna.co.uk/ http://www.clips4sale.com/store/26308

I'd find it very funny, personally .

It's been repeated, in very different ways, over and over again on this thread: it's an issue that has a deep emotional impact on the client and can be very traumatic. A TS who simply decides to ignore that is being selfish, mercenary, careless and untrustworthy.

IMO, if someone asked her while shopping at Tesco, she should tell them to fuck off. What people in the street should know is not the same as what your client should know about you. A session is different, for its intimacy, the sexuality involved, and because there is money changing hands. It's up to her to inform any potential clients, specially if she's very hard to tell apart form a biological woman, which at the end of the day, I guess it's what they want.

We can argue about gender equality, sexism, etc, etc, till the cows come home, But the reality remains that a professional session is not the place to do activism or to attempt therapy.

Our clients trust us with their physical mental and emotional well-being while they are with us. A serious pro-Dommes can't brush their clients hangups off just like that.

http://www.mstytania.com