A Moral Question (93)

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This post is on the Pro-Mistresses etc web board.

Tue 23 Jun 09, 12:01 PM
LadyPandoraCP
UK(WA), 4 yrs
£ First off, let me state quite categorically that this is not a dig at anyone; it is something that has arisen in various conversations with different groups of people. Anyone paranoid or precious enough to think it's about them personally needs to go get some help
I have several friends, both pre- and post-op Transgenders. Some of these feel that, once they have the op, they ought to be accepted as genetic females. Others feel that, although they wish to live as females, they are still genetically male and have no problem with telling people this. I personally believe that they should be accepted as females, but that they should still be honest and say that they are transgender.
The reason for this post is that recently there have been some TSs who have set themselves up as professional subs, Dommes or switches.
I have no problem with that whatsoever. I am curious, however, as to what others think of people who claim to be genetically female when they technically aren't.
I have spoken to several chaps who pay for professional services, who would be enraged to find that the nice girl over their knee was born a man. I also know that some ladies in the scene believe - as I do - that to claim to be other than what one is constitutes deception and, basically, fraud. I know of several chaps who, if they were to discover the lady was genetically a male, could actually turn to violence in their anger, shock, embarrassment, whatever.
So ... the question is this ...
Do you feel that people who fail to mention, deny or misrepresent their genetic makeup are committing a fraud, or do you feel it is completely acceptable?
As I said at the beginning, this is not a dig at any specific person; it is a question which I feel is valid in this changing world and which I would like to hear others' opinions on. Please don't let it deteriorate into a slanging match; it is a genuine and - I believe - pertinent question. Thank you.
Some people are like slinkies ... they don't really have a purpose, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs
Some people say I'm a bitch, that's just not true - I have the heart and soul of a kind and gentle person ... in a jar, on my desk, next to my cane.

23 Jun 09, 12:16 PM
gal_rosa
UK(E), 2 yrs

I don't think people generally state their genetic make up they just state they are male/female....I've certainly never felt the need to assure anyone that I have 2 X chromosomes. So if you think that a transsexual should be accepted as the gender they feel themselves to be, then a M2F transsexual is a woman, no qualification needed.
Edited for a missing 'y'
"That hurts......please don't stop!"
Edited 23 Jun 09, 12:17 PM by gal_rosa

23 Jun 09, 12:18 PM
Lady_Anna_Bradford
UK(BD), 3 yrs
£
We had a very similar discussion about this over on UKM. Opinion, as ever, was divided.
My opinion is that however a TS views themselves, they have to consider how they would be viewed by their potential clients. A TS has had years to deal with the conflict and confusion arising from being a transgendered person, their client hasn't. The very least a TS should do is be very honest to save themselves getting abused or assaulted should the penny drop during session when emotions are running so high.
As someone said on the other forum, the simple fact that the TS has had to deal with all the emotional trauma of realising that they are not quite what they seem should mean they have a greater consideration for their clients.

In my opinion the Mistress concerned did more than cheat you; she showed a complete lack of understanding of human emotions. To fail to see that natural born gender, in the context of BDSM sessioning, is important to many people is beyond belief. For someone who must have gone through a great deal of anguish herself I find this quite extraordinary.
I agree entirely that a MtF has every right to be *treated* as a natural born female but the fact remains that they are *not* natural women.
Jebus!! Isn't there enough guys who LOVE TSs? So isn't the fact you are a TS actually a damn good selling point?
"If no sexual offence is being committed it seems very odd indeed that there should be an offence for having an image of something which was not an offence," Lord Wallace of Tankerness
http://www.ladyanna.co.uk/ http://www.clips4sale.com/store/26308

23 Jun 09, 12:19 PM
JudyInDsGuise
UK(E), 7 yrs
LadyPandoraCP wrote:
[snip]
So ... the question is this ...
Do you feel that people who fail to mention, deny or misrepresent their genetic makeup are committing a fraud, or do you feel it is completely acceptable?

I guess it depends on the level of the relationship. Whilst I would want to know such things if the relationship was close enough for it to affect me (it comes under "open and honest" like lots of other things), I don't need to know in most cases - no more than I need to know about ingrowing toenails/state of womb/functionality of penis of anyone else.
Nobody has ever questioned my sexuality, so I don't understand what it would feel like to have to "explain" to all and sundry. I really don't think I'd like to be in that position though.
judy
I must be only one in a million (� David Bowie)

23 Jun 09, 12:21 PM
LadyPandoraCP
UK(WA), 4 yrs
£ Thanks, judy, I was thinking more along the lines of professionals not being straight about who and what they are, hence I posted it on the PD board. Apologies for not making that clear
Some people are like slinkies ... they don't really have a purpose, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs
Some people say I'm a bitch, that's just not true - I have the heart and soul of a kind and gentle person ... in a jar, on my desk, next to my cane.

23 Jun 09, 12:21 PM
gal_rosa
UK(E), 2 yrs

Lady_Anna_Bradford wrote:
The very least a TS should do is be very honest to save themselves getting abused or assaulted should the penny drop during session when emotions are running so high.

That's the point, in terms of pros, which I should think is worth considering. Is the person taking a risk by not revealing at the outset that they are trans? But that's an individual decision IMO, and I don't think it's a moral question.

"That hurts......please don't stop!"

23 Jun 09, 12:22 PM
JudyInDsGuise
UK(E), 7 yrs
LadyPandoraCP wrote:
Thanks, judy, I was thinking more along the lines of professionals not being straight about who and what they are, hence I posted it on the PD board. Apologies for not making that clear
I don't think that PDs are so special that their morals are different to anyone else's though
judy
I must be only one in a million (� David Bowie)

23 Jun 09, 12:31 PM
LadyPandoraCP
UK(WA), 4 yrs
£
JudyInDsGuise wrote:
I don't think that PDs are so special that their morals are different to anyone else's though
judy
ROFLMAO you know exactly what I mean!

Some people are like slinkies ... they don't really have a purpose, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs
Some people say I'm a bitch, that's just not true - I have the heart and soul of a kind and gentle person ... in a jar, on my desk, next to my cane.

23 Jun 09, 12:33 PM
JudyInDsGuise
UK(E), 7 yrs
LadyPandoraCP wrote:
ROFLMAO you know exactly what I mean!

Yeah, I do Hopefully you will get responses from other PDs/clients too. I was just trying to look at it from the TG's p.o.v, combined with my own feelings about whether I would want my surgeon (for example) to tell me the history of his gender (I wouldn't).
judy
I must be only one in a million (� David Bowie)

23 Jun 09, 12:34 PM
whaplodedave
UK(PE), 4 yrs
if they are asked then i think they should answer honestly but they shouldnt have to advertise the fact on their website.
at the end of the day if i had played with a lady who got me happy and spaced the last thing i would be worried about is whether she used to have a willy years ago

23 Jun 09, 12:36 PM
Tara_Red
UK(B), 3 yrs
£
It is indeed very pertinent Lady P when working professionally.
I have absolutely no problems with TS, TVs etc and have them amongst my many friends.
However I also have clients who have used TS professional submissives who claimed to be female without disclosing their past who were furious to find out during the session or afterwards. I've had 2 clients who said they walked out and another couple of clients who asked me if 'she' had been a he before as they were not comfortable with their sessions. All of them were visibly upset and angry but as I pointed out the law does not require her to disclose this.
One pro sub on IC has now put it at the bottom of her profile that she's TS as it had caused her a few problems and she says better to be honest.
However another TS advertises on spankee finder as a girl and has always done so, and it's her that my clients were upset about however it's not for me to say. One can only presume that they get tipped off by the deep voice and then notice that the 'bits' just aren't quite right when stripping off! BUT having said that a couple of clients know she's TS and like the fact.
You wouldn't think that like the lady boys in Bangkok you have to ask would you!
(I'm def female born before any of my clients start worrying lol!)
Pro submissive & switch with great dungeon & LOTS of toys!

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