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| Will_and_Echo |
Ok, I know most people don't like labelling themselves, because we are all unique (just like everybody else), but, FFS, if you are going to for the sake of supposed “convenience”, can people at least *try* to get it right?!
This is something that has pissed me off for years. Kink terminology leaves a lot to be desired, but this phrase is without a shadow of a doubt the worst offender. So please, allow me to explain the inconsistency of this term.
Ok. Within our jargon, we have lots of different ways in which we describe dynamic and physical action. So, we have tops, submissives, sadists, dominants, pets, slaves, switches etc. And most of these have something they match up to which is its direct opposite. So, some of the pairs are: sub & dom, slave & master/mistress, daddy & girl etc.
And top & bottom.
So, we have established that within each pair, the words have totally opposing definitions.
Now, there is another important quality of the words. Whether it describes dynamic or physical action.
Sub and dom are dynamic words. Top and bottom describe who is doing what, physically. The following definitions are given in the BDSM dictionary:
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Top: Within BDSM, the Top is the partner who takes the role of giver in such acts as bondage, discipline (e.g. flogging) or humiliation. The Top performs acts such as these upon the bottom. Bottom: Within BDSM, the bottom is the partner who is the recipient of such acts as bondage, discipline (e.g. flogging) or humiliation. A top performs acts such as these upon the bottom. |
SO! It would be possible to “sub from the top” (ie, give a hot massage or somesuch to ones Dom) or “Dom from the bottom” (receive the sensation, but be the one in control or directing it).
I, for eg, frequently dom from the bottom during needle play when I am directing the person piercing me in what to do and controlling them as my submissive. They, in turn, are subbing from the top. This is all fine, both because it is fun AND linguistically correct, as dominance doesn't negate bottoming.
However, this means that it is basically impossible to do both of one pair at the same time. One cannot sub and dom the same person simultaneously.* Equally you cannot top and bottom/ top from the bottom (which means physically doing so) to the same person at the same time, because that would mean you were simultaneously topping and bottoming (doing something physical and having something physical done to yourself) to yourself. Again, pretty much impossible.
In conclusion: Topping from the bottom just doesn't happen, however much people say it does. The only situation in which that could arise would be if you are spanking yourself. And that really isn't that much fun.
So, please, for the sake of both grammar and my sanity... Erase this pointless, stupid, paradoxical phrase from your minds.
Thank you.
Exx
*unless you are in a long term relationship where you are dom, but for that session you are sub; therefore you are overall dom but momentary sub. But that is quite a pedantic point.
| 16 Jun 09, 3:47 PM JudyInDsGuise UK(E), 9 yrs |
Oh but "he/she tops from the bottom" sounds so much nicer than "he/she is a scheming, manipulative little shit". judy I must be only one in a million (© David Bowie) | |||
| 16 Jun 09, 4:05 PM PrinceCaspian UK(SE), 6 yrs  |
Ah I've always included light d/s and giving of orders when limited to a scene in my definition of topping. I'm afraid I don't consider the BDSM dictionary a definitive source. I usually say the most common relevant usage is the most correct. (accepting of course that there is no such thing as correct) "Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde Edited 16 Jun 09, 4:10 PM by PrinceCaspian | |||
| 16 Jun 09, 4:06 PM Will_and_Echo UK(SW), 5 yrs    |
There is that...
But I quite like calling people manipulative little shits, so I'm afraid that may not be quite enough to sway me here Exx "What you blush to tell", says Venus, "is the most important part of the whole matter" | |||
| 16 Jun 09, 4:08 PM JudyInDsGuise UK(E), 9 yrs |
Yeah but if they're making you call them that, they're topping from the bottom by being manipulative little shits...I've confused myself now! judy
I must be only one in a million (© David Bowie) | |||
| 16 Jun 09, 4:10 PM Will_and_Echo UK(SW), 5 yrs |
Yeah, I knew different definitions would be a problem. I don't agree with you essentially; when I top I just like to hurt people. Don't really give a damn if they do as they're told, so long as they're tied up. And that does seem to be the generic view on topping (see definitions above) But *really*, what is wrong with the phrase "Domming from the bottom?" It's a change of four letters... but makes oh, so much difference! Exx "What you blush to tell", says Venus, "is the most important part of the whole matter" | |||
| 16 Jun 09, 4:11 PM Will_and_Echo UK(SW), 5 yrs |
Do you mean to say that they're being manipulative little shits by being manipulative little shits? Exx "What you blush to tell", says Venus, "is the most important part of the whole matter" | |||
| 16 Jun 09, 4:15 PM PrinceCaspian UK(SE), 6 yrs |
for me it's wrong as "topping from the bottom" implies telling someone what to do or what not to do etc. "domming from the bottom" implies occupying a position of dominance over the "top" during the scene. I guess for me topping is something you do (including command) whereas dom/me is a position you occupy. Not definitive but helps as a clarification. ps To add I guess I have no problem including commanding or ordering within topping as I don't see it as any different from the other "actions" listed in the definition. "Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde | |||
| 16 Jun 09, 4:17 PM Will_and_Echo UK(SW), 5 yrs |
Hoi, did you just add that in? No fair I agree with you of course that language is an utterly mutable thing, in a constant state of flux and thus it is incredibly difficult to pin things like this down. But I still think that topping from the bottom is an inherently flawed phrase in which we attempt to combine two features which should be diametrically opposed. I just think that it's a bit of a term of convenience rather than one which was actually thought out at any point. Which annoys me. "What you blush to tell", says Venus, "is the most important part of the whole matter" | |||
| 16 Jun 09, 4:24 PM Will_and_Echo UK(SW), 5 yrs |
Yup, this is just a difference in perspective. I view topping (and bottoming) as pretty much completly physical (which is why I emphasised it so much in my original post) not command based. Although domming from the bottom is a little clumsy for the situation which you describe, it still doesn't attempt to blend two opposites. "What you blush to tell", says Venus, "is the most important part of the whole matter" | |||
| 16 Jun 09, 4:42 PM TheFalconer UK(S), 6 yrs |
It doesn't have the poetic inversion of using the paired opposite though. "Morality, like art, means drawing a line someplace." - Oscar Wilde |
