10 Jun 09, 12:22 PM
emark
UK, 8 yrs |
spirifer wrote:
I still don't understand how a claim like this doesn't stand or fall on its own merits. The court is hardly likely to suddenly say that the case is incompatible because it has a statement in front of it purportedly from a straight woman, rather than one from a gay man, is it?
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They won't ever admit to it  But I think that it can be a factor in influencing people.
E.g., the official reason for R v. Wilson (where a man branded his wife's buttocks) being legal was that it was considered not to be S&M, but more like a tattoo - but one can't help thinking that the fact that Spanner was gay group sex, whilst R v. Wilson involved a husband and wife, had a factor. Sign the statement against criminalisation of possession "extreme" images. Petition against plans to criminalise sexual cartoons appearing to depict anyone under 18.
Edited 10 Jun 09, 12:23 PM by emark
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10 Jun 09, 12:23 PM
JudyInDsGuise
UK(E), 8 yrs |
I've just looked at the properties for that PDF, and it was created on 09/03/2006 and modified on 27/03/2006. Surely they'd announce if there had been *some* progress in 3 years with regards to their own, or other, volunteers?
judy I must be only one in a million (© David Bowie)
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10 Jun 09, 12:25 PM
spirifer
UK, 6 yrs
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emark wrote:
spirifer wrote:
I still don't understand how a claim like this doesn't stand or fall on its own merits. The court is hardly likely to suddenly say that the case is incompatible because it has a statement in front of it purportedly from a straight woman, rather than one from a gay man, is it?
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They won't ever admit to it But I think that it can be a factor in influencing people.
E.g., the official reason for R v. Wilson (where a man branded his wife's buttocks) being legal was that it was considered not to be S&M, but more like a tattoo - but one can't help thinking that the fact that Spanner was gay group sex, whilst R v. Wilson involved a husband and wife, had a factor.
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Well, maybe, although Spanner's nearly 20 years ago now, and even then, two of the Lords dissented.
However, even as a straight female BDSMer, I'd be far too afraid of it all going tits up and finding myself prosecuted at the end of it all.  The state has no business in the bedrooms of the nation - Pierre Trudeau
A denizen of a right little, tight little island.
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10 Jun 09, 12:25 PM
Lady_Anna_Bradford
UK(BD), 5 yrs
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spirifer wrote:
Lady_Anna_Bradford wrote:
JudyInDsGuise wrote:
Lady_Anna_Bradford wrote:
From what I understand about the law and what the Spanner Trust told me, admitting you do it is one thing but the court still has to prove it.
I'm thinking now about past miscarriages of justice where the police would coerce a confession out of the supposed 'criminal' to bang them up and close the case. Confessions that stand up in court are only valid now if there is supporting evidence to avoid future miscarriages of justice.
I may be wrong. Perhaps someone with legal experience can tell us?
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Thanks Lady Anna, that's the sort of thing I meant re: confessions
I think if I were considering volunteering, I'd take legal advice from elsewhere first (which means I probably wouldn't bother volunteering LOL)
Still strikes me as odd that Spanner don't mention that they are volunteering themselves on the PDF, or what (if this campaign really is a year old) has happened so far with their own volunteers.
judy
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Perhaps they are? They may just need a larger cross-section of the population to make their point clear. Look at the effect the women in the Max Mosely case had on the media and the court. These were educated, intelligent and confident women who proved the point that the assumed stereotypes don't always hold true.
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That would be more persuasive if Spanner didn't say that the claimants may be able to remain anonymous.
I still don't understand how a claim like this doesn't stand or fall on its own merits. The court is hardly likely to suddenly say that the case is incompatible because it has a statement in front of it purportedly from a straight woman, rather than one from a gay man, is it?
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After reading through some of the comments made in the judges' write-ups after the appeal I think the outcome would have been very different if there were some dominant women involved. "If no sexual offence is being committed it seems very odd indeed that there should be an offence for having an image of something which was not an offence," Lord Wallace of Tankerness
http://www.ladyanna.co.uk/ http://www.clips4sale.com/store/26308
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10 Jun 09, 12:26 PM
Lady_Anna_Bradford
UK(BD), 5 yrs
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JudyInDsGuise wrote:
Lady_Anna_Bradford wrote:
Perhaps they are? They may just need a larger cross-section of the population to make their point clear. Look at the effect the women in the Max Mosely case had on the media and the court. These were educated, intelligent and confident women who proved the point that the assumed stereotypes don't always hold true.
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I'm just relating it to when I've needed volunteers for things. I've usually reduced doubt by saying something like "I've done this myself, and this was the outcome. The outcome for you may be different; please take advice from your own sources" if I don't know the volunteer on a personal level (or "FFS I did it and it was fine, get on with it" if it's a mate  )
judy
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Yeah, I see your point. "If no sexual offence is being committed it seems very odd indeed that there should be an offence for having an image of something which was not an offence," Lord Wallace of Tankerness
http://www.ladyanna.co.uk/ http://www.clips4sale.com/store/26308
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10 Jun 09, 12:26 PM
spirifer
UK, 6 yrs
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Lady_Anna_Bradford wrote:
After reading through some of the comments made in the judges' write-ups after the appeal I think the outcome would have been very different if there were some dominant women involved.
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Well, go for it, woman! The state has no business in the bedrooms of the nation - Pierre Trudeau
A denizen of a right little, tight little island.
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10 Jun 09, 12:26 PM
Tanos
UK(M), 14 yrs
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emark wrote:
spirifer wrote:
I still don't understand how a claim like this doesn't stand or fall on its own merits. The court is hardly likely to suddenly say that the case is incompatible because it has a statement in front of it purportedly from a straight woman, rather than one from a gay man, is it?
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They won't ever admit to it But I think that it can be a factor in influencing people.
E.g., the official reason for R v. Wilson (where a man branded his wife's buttocks) being legal was that it was considered not to be S&M, but more like a tattoo - but one can't help thinking that the fact that Spanner was gay group sex, whilst R v. Wilson involved a husband and wife, had a factor.
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Especially when Wilson was originally convicted citing the newly made Spanner precedent, but he was cleared on appeal because they were a married couple.
The Appeal Court said that the Spanner precedent didn't apply in this case and that "consensual activity between husband and wife in the privacy of the matrimonial home was not a proper matter for criminal investigation or criminal prosecution."
That's a pretty clear case of making a distinction between gay and straight people.
Regards,
Tanos www.tanos.org.uk
www.bridgewood.org.uk
www.twitter.com/ukTanos
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10 Jun 09, 12:27 PM
Lady_Anna_Bradford
UK(BD), 5 yrs
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spirifer wrote:
emark wrote:
spirifer wrote:
I still don't understand how a claim like this doesn't stand or fall on its own merits. The court is hardly likely to suddenly say that the case is incompatible because it has a statement in front of it purportedly from a straight woman, rather than one from a gay man, is it?
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They won't ever admit to it But I think that it can be a factor in influencing people.
E.g., the official reason for R v. Wilson (where a man branded his wife's buttocks) being legal was that it was considered not to be S&M, but more like a tattoo - but one can't help thinking that the fact that Spanner was gay group sex, whilst R v. Wilson involved a husband and wife, had a factor.
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Well, maybe, although Spanner's nearly 20 years ago now, and even then, two of the Lords dissented.
However, even as a straight female BDSMer, I'd be far too afraid of it all going tits up and finding myself prosecuted at the end of it all.
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This might the reason as why it is taking so long for Spanner to find suitable candidates? Fear of prosecution. "If no sexual offence is being committed it seems very odd indeed that there should be an offence for having an image of something which was not an offence," Lord Wallace of Tankerness
http://www.ladyanna.co.uk/ http://www.clips4sale.com/store/26308
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10 Jun 09, 12:27 PM
Lady_Anna_Bradford
UK(BD), 5 yrs
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spirifer wrote:
Lady_Anna_Bradford wrote:
After reading through some of the comments made in the judges' write-ups after the appeal I think the outcome would have been very different if there were some dominant women involved.
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Well, go for it, woman!
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I have. I've volunteered. Please visit me in when I'm banged up 
"If no sexual offence is being committed it seems very odd indeed that there should be an offence for having an image of something which was not an offence," Lord Wallace of Tankerness
http://www.ladyanna.co.uk/ http://www.clips4sale.com/store/26308
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10 Jun 09, 12:29 PM
spirifer
UK, 6 yrs
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Lady_Anna_Bradford wrote:
spirifer wrote:
Lady_Anna_Bradford wrote:
After reading through some of the comments made in the judges' write-ups after the appeal I think the outcome would have been very different if there were some dominant women involved.
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Well, go for it, woman!
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I have. I've volunteered. Please visit me in when I'm banged up
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I'll bring you a cake with a file hidden inside it!
Well done!
The state has no business in the bedrooms of the nation - Pierre Trudeau
A denizen of a right little, tight little island.
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