slave v's sub (29)

My wife and I are also confused by whether I am called a sub or a slave. I am totally under her control and have no safe word. The only time the term becomes an issue is when we discuss what I am to her - and we never choose the same word twice. In other words, to us, there's no difference.

And now you say...

I misconstrued your first post to me?

You weren't having a pop?

Right.

Try it, you just might like it.

Recently I was reading (well, flicking through) Robert Rubel's Protocols who attempted to clarify, for the purposes of his book the differences between the various stratified layers of people into BDSM.

Roughly, he suggested that SM deals with the physical, the body. D/s with the mental and psychological and M/s with the spiritual.

Hum, thought I. Spiritual? Dwelling on the matter, I concluded that Rubel was describing the soul or heart and how the slave can be nothing else but a slave. It is their purpose, their cause.

Now, I might find consensual slavery attractive, but it is a mental process. It isn't (dare I say it?) truly me. For a slave it isn't a mental process, it just is.

Anyway, for the moment that's my take on the subject. It will of course alter and change.

f x

Cookie Monster In Bondage!
Any posts made between the hours of 2am and 6am are the product of a drink-addled, sleep-deprived mind and hence don't count. Thank you.

The difference for me is that a slave feels and believes that they can't leave the relationship. It's not about "I don't want to", it's about "I can't". Which takes a lot of time and hard work and effort to bring about.

I find the ownership side of things difficult to reconcile, because I use the phrase "my owners" and feel that I'm owned, but I know other people use it to mean a different thing entirely. It's possibly the difference between being "owned property" and just being "owned" - property can't go anywhere, maidies can!

So for me, this "ability to leave" is what it all comes down to. And as I could still end my relationship if I wanted to, I identify as a submissive, minimal limits, no safeword and all.

(Don't worry. I'm not going anywhere. Well, not until after Wednesday, at least. )

I want a poobadour!

Edited 27 Apr 09, 3:31 PM by littlenic

I think.....I agree. I am submissive, if I decide to I can up and leave the relationship. I do have a safeword because he wants me to have one (I don't really think I need it any more and haven't used it for yonks, but he wants me to have it so I do), my hard limits mostly seem to have eroded. But I could leave, I think.......although pleasing my Master is increasingly ingrained in me and it would be very hard to break that and leave. As far as my Master and I are concerned, he does own me. But I am not slave because I could, if I chose, leave him.

"That hurts......please don't stop!"

Is there any chance at all that you could stop being a cock and either answer the question raised in the OP or move along?

No colours or shapes
No sound in my head
I forget who I am
Making love is the same as fucking but you slow down and don't call her disgusting names.

I think that Rubel has it pretty spot on. I have been trying to wrestle with what the conceptual difference between D/s and M/s was for quite a while and although I had almost got there, saying that M/s was spiritual made it seem much clearer.

I have been saying for a long time that D/s is a practical phenomena as in D/s is just something which is there or not. M/s depends upon a belief system ( in addition to the basic D/s stuff) in which a person is transformed conceptually by the relationship into something which they are in more of a spiritual sense. I do only use spiritual to denote belief rather than a religious thing per see.

I think actually this is why people often argue about M/s so vehemently and get so hurt and angry that people cannot understand how it feels to be in a M/s relationship. To some of us, no matter how hard we try we will never 'believe' in M/s. If we did, we might all be trying it. It seems to be an all or nothing thing. I say 'believe' in the same way as 'believe' in God. If you get it, if it speaks to you and seems possible, then you believe, if not, you are forever on the opposite side of a conceptual gulf, looking across at those in M/s relationships.

This doesn't mean one has to be rude or say that what they have cannot happen, but one can say one does not 'believe' in it for belief is a personal thing. I can see it works for other people as they clearly do believe in it but I do not believe in it myself. I don't persecute any believers but equally I do not expect those believers to try to accuse me of being a bigot, or stupid, or any of the other things which can occur in this kind of debate.

In religion, which is analogous in as much as one has to be belief in a supernatural being instead of a transformation to something sustained by the belief of those involved, the believers can get very inward looking as having 'seen the light' they find it quite inexplicable that others do not have that inner conviction and understanding. It becomes a world view, away of creating barriers between the beleivers and others.

So, a belief system is neither inherently right or wrong, it just works for those who believe in it and doesn't for others. Tolerance of each position is what is required. tolerance whether you are a believer or not and tolerance of those who are adherents of any belief system without labelling them weird, unhealthy, odd or worse.

Before anyone thinks I am being snide in my use of 'belief' in this bdsm example, we all may in our different ways believe in things we cannot necessarily see, taste, touch, smell or even understand. Love is a good example. It doesn't make us cranks. So, for example I am an atheist, I do not 'believe' in God, I do not 'believe' in M/s but I do 'believe' in love.

24/7 subs and slaves can and do live similar lives, it is only the concept of 'ownership' which separates them.