This post is on the Northampton (NN) topics page and the Other BDSM web board.
| 7 Oct 08, 4:54 AM Rosalee UK, 7 yrs  |
In my opinion, this is not a good film. I've seen all sorts of films depicting various relationships, be they vanilla and/or gay and/or lesbian or kinky and/or combinations of the afore mentioned that worked for me. This film really didn't. Hate to say this, as someone I regard as a friend really likes it, but I thought it was shite. The two main characters seemed two dimensional and uninteresting. Basically, I couldn't give a damn about them as they gave me nothing to like and some stuff to dislike and that was it. And as I said before, it wasn't sexy. She's NOT a domme; she's a very naughty switch! | ||
| 7 Oct 08, 1:46 PM rabbot 12 yrs |
What I liked about the film (and it wasn't sexy to me as it is M/f) most of all was its optimism. So many mainstream films involving bdsm have such pessimistic endings but this one was uplifting.
Why be religious when you can worship a Goddess for real. | ||
| 7 Oct 08, 3:28 PM blacksheepboy UK(CR), 4 yrs |
Well, that's a fair point. So, I reckon there's a gap in the market. Now, all we need to do is write the script! If the characters are happy and well-balanced, it ought to be a comedy: 'Bridget Jones Gets Kinky'? My favourite kinky film is still 'Bitter Moon', although the characters are totally fucked up by the end of it. What's the point having cake, if you can't eat it? | ||
| 7 Oct 08, 9:38 PM Glovepuppet UK(GL), 3 yrs  |
I love the film because it quite literally changed my life. I was in what in retrospect was a pretty negative relationship and was talking to my online best friend (the one person I was honest with) one day and the topic of the film came up. I explained what I liked about it and rather promptly flicked some kind of switch in his head and rather quickly a CV applying to be his secretary was flying through cyberspace. For us it was a way to really discuss what wasn't working in our relationships and why. Sometimes he comments that he was totally vanilla before he knew me, I've made it clear that I'm to be punished for this terible misdeed. That I have fuzzy sentimental feelings about the film probably says a fair bit about me and one of my favourite ever lines from a film comes from Secretary. "There is nothing to understand" Mmm so understated, so simple, so perfect. Oh, and hi by the way (since I'm new) *waves shyly* Edited 7 Oct 08, 9:39 PM by Glovepuppet | ||
| 7 Oct 08, 10:44 PM red_bows UK(M), 6 yrs |
sorry i've quoted in such a big chunk, but there was no point in me re-writing what you'd already said. I feel the same about the depiction of her self-harming, about Mr Grey and about the bug thing at the end.
But wouldn't they think this however the main characters were depicted? I didn't watch it the other night, but it is one of my favourite films. (I always list it as such, and either people just accept it as one of my odd things or they don't know about the film.) Oh and i've had a crush on Maggie Gyllenhaal ever since i saw it :P
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| 8 Oct 08, 2:03 PM Brandon_Teena 3 yrs |
Yeah, totally agree. Bilge. | ||
| 9 Oct 08, 1:38 PM undercover_hippie UK, 3 yrs |
But if you look a little deeper it's a Lynchian study of two self-damaging personalities finding healing through acceptance, both of others and themselves; an ironic comment on the Hollywood rom-com; a finely tuned example of how set design, palette and lighting can be used to inform and comment upon subtext; and a deceptively structural piece built around symmetry. I mean, it's not a documentary! These are not 'real' people, they're not on IC, and I doubt they have the vocabulary to explain what they're doing to the satisfaction of the peanut gallery of these boards. They inhabit a shadowy, surreal world where computers have yet to penetrate, natural light is a rarity, and the topography is a reflection of E. Edward Grey's inner struggle. Stylistically it's closest relative seems to be Twin Peaks, so if you're not a fan of Lynch then I can see how this film may not be your cup of tea...
Alright, in order: The arc of the final act is actually her pursuit of him in the face of his denial, so he is in fact the weaker of the two. It's his redemption at the climax of the film, not hers. The cupboard is an homage to Blue Velvet, an appropriation of a symbol of powerlessness. Leaving her for a long period of time is necessary for both character arc and plotting. The strength of her commitment is what convinces him that she truly understands him, and therefore allows him to accept himself. And in a mirror of the scene where he tells her to stop self-harming by expressing the feelings she has but cannot articulate, her statement in the paper is equally an expression of his non-verbalised feelings, which is why it's the catalyst to his final actions. The point being that, in order for him to read it in the paper, she has to have been at his desk long enough for a small media scrum to develop. A shorter period of time would have sat uneasily with the plot-device of the interview...
The bug is a shorthand to denote consensuality. It's a way of signifying that this isn't abuse, it's a two-way relationship based on the needs of both partners. I thought the emphasis throughout the film on her deliberate provocation of him was a brilliant non-verbal portrayal of the actual power balance in their relationship, whilst maintaining an element of playfulness. It reminded me of some of my friends, to be honest And the self-harming... Like I said earlier, it may help to think of this as a study of two very damaged people finding happiness and acceptance, rather than a film about BDSM per se. Continuing the theme of symmetry, she self-harms physically, but he self-harms psychologically. She's just out of an institution, but she's no nearer to finding her equilibrium because she still doesn't accept herself. It takes his speech on self-harm for her to feel she's found someone who she can trust, with whom she can communicate emotionally if not verbally. His act of self-harm is that much greater because it involves a violation of this trust, he attempts to destroy their relationship because he doesn't trust his own feelings about her, and therefore himself. I mean, I can see why the harming thing worries some people, but it's carrying a heavy load thematically and structurally, and personally I don't think you could take it out without fundamentally altering the entire film.
Shit, I've just looked back at all of this and worried myself... I could go on too. This is one of my favourite films, partly because I think it's dense enough to stand up to some analysis. I'm not going to hunt you down if you don't like it, honest Edited 9 Oct 08, 6:10 PM by undercover_hippie | ||
| 9 Oct 08, 1:42 PM Backdooruk UK(BA), 12 yrs |
I rarely say this, but that was a truely great post (from a fellow filmy). - Chris
Anyone with a brain is manipulable. Only the truly unimaginative are difficult to control. | ||
| 9 Oct 08, 4:39 PM RopeTopUK UK(N), 3 yrs |
I think it's great, especially the issue of sublimating self-harm. It's the only mainstream film I've seen that has an understanding of BDSM and portrays it positively. I mentioned it to my subs and both of them said they had seen it and enjoyed it. Then I came across it for two quid in Fopp, so I bought three copies, one for each of us! | ||
| 9 Oct 08, 6:02 PM Mona_Demarkov HR, 7 yrs |
I love the film for all the eloquent reasons above (cunningly summarized by me in three meaningful dots). No really, I am not being lazy, I just can't think of adding anything more. I love the fact that this topic comes up like clockwork, and ze fetish communiteee is once again totally divided. Something to rely on in life, really. "Uplasi me sjaj milion sveca kad se nebom popali. Gde je tome kraj? Za kog su tako dubok zdenac kopali? Zasto se sve to desava, dal covek ista resava, il' smo samo tu zbog ravnoteze medu zvezdama?" |
... not least in that scene where he gets her to bend over the desk and read the letter...hmmm) 
