IC as a Gift Economy (89)

This post is on the Website help web board.

Mon 22 Sep 08, 10:23 AM
Admin
UK, 11 yrs
Skyhook's thread about never donating to IC raised some interesting views about how people see the site.
When IC started in 1997, the idea was rather like the fable of Stone Soup, in that lots of people knew bits and pieces about what BDSM things were happening in the UK, but the scene wasn't very good at sharing information, especially with newcomers. Making a site like IC with listings etc pulled a lot of that information together, since there was now an obvious place for people to go and look for it.
More recently, IC has become more like a Gift Economy: IC has been provided to its users for more than 10 years now as a "gift" or as "hospitality" (in the medieval sense of helping travellers) and this has established a reputation for being at least useful, both for people wanting to publicise things and people wanting to find out what is going on.
But the site also provides a forum for people to establish their own reputations in lots of different ways: for example, by publishing useful information about their well-regarded events, shops etc in the listings, or by posting helpful answers to other people's questions. These kinds of uses enhance IC's own reputation for usefulness.
This is the other part of a Gift Economy: gifts are passed around and exchanged over time in a way which isn't barter or a hidden tit-for-tat 100% equal transaction, but isn't just one way nonetheless.
A crucial part of establishing this kind of Gift Economy is reputation, and allowing people to gain some recognition for the gifts they put into the pot or pass around. Adding the Gold Stars to the profiles of people who donate Ł10 seems to have tapped into this feeling, and allowed many people to say, in effect, "I like what you've done for the last 10 years; here's a contribution towards continuing."
To us, that model seems a lot better than the Alt.com or Bondage.com approach where people are expected to take out premium memberships to access key features of the site (eg to reply to personal ads or have a weblog.)
Thank you to everyone who has contributed over the years, either with information itself, sponsorship banners or with donations
Regards,
Admin

Remember: it's only a website!

22 Sep 08, 10:33 AM
Roobard
UK(KY), 8 yrs

Admin wrote:
Thank you to everyone who has contributed over the years, either with information itself, sponsorship banners or with donations

I dislike the gold star thingie. I don't want it to say "Look at me, I gave money" and feel like a second class user if I don't have the star there. I also don't like having to sign in to make a donation instead of being able to do it 'anonymously', as in the past.
Is there any way round this?
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How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world... Anne Frank

22 Sep 08, 10:44 AM
Admin
UK, 11 yrs

gigglebox wrote:
I also don't like having to sign in to make a donation instead of being able to do it 'anonymously', as in the past.
Is there any way round this?
It's not been possible to donate via the website without signing-in for a couple of years: as the page says, we did this because we were getting several Ł1 donations per day which were all then challenged and turned out to be from people testing stolen / generated credit card numbers. The rather firm advice we got was to require some kind of sign-in before accepting payments.
However, there are other ways of donating (small amounts in the post for example) which we're happy to discuss by memo.
Regards,
Admin
Remember: it's only a website

22 Sep 08, 10:52 AM
Roobard
UK(KY), 8 yrs

Admin wrote:

gigglebox wrote:
I also don't like having to sign in to make a donation instead of being able to do it 'anonymously', as in the past.
Is there any way round this?
It's not been possible to donate via the website without signing-in for a couple of years:

Ooops it's been longer than I thought. Thanks for that.
Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha
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How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world... Anne Frank

22 Sep 08, 11:26 AM
SpiceCat
UK(S), 7 yrs
Oooh thanks for that link.
I hadn't heard that term - though I was clearly grasping for it in my posts ... I knew the concept - I just didn't know the word.
Figures.... that when I read that article lo and behold it's got some support in anarchist theories.
Spicecat

22 Sep 08, 11:33 AM
Degenerate
UK(M), 22 mths
yeah great post Admin. I feel really glad you wont be penalising free members they are the mainstay of any online community for various reasons including people being worried about being tracked. Also younger people will be put off in higher nubers, and I think this site is an important safety resource.
I will try again in the next day or two to pay online and then if not will memo you re sending a cheque or summat
De
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Sexuality - strong and warm and wild and free, Sexuality - your laws do not apply to me, Sexuality - dont threaten me with misery, Sexuality - I demand equality Billy Bragg

22 Sep 08, 1:32 PM
Platinum
UK, 6 yrs
Dear Admin
Thank you for a timely and thought provoking explanation of your motives, it certainly gave me pause for thought. Reading the seeding thread led me to wonder as to whether there could not be some way for those who wish to contribute to the site, without using money, to do so.
The most obvious route would seem to me, to be through positive content creation. Might I suggest that you consider offering a star for 6 months to people who have in some way impressed you with their contribution to IC. I think this might be a way to reward positive contributions and act as a motivational device to stimulate similar behaviour in others, benefiting everybody by increasing positive content creation.
However, that immediately raises the issue of who judges the value of the content. I personally would not favour public voting of any sort.
P

22 Sep 08, 2:12 PM
Miss_Elainius
UK, 2 yrs

Platinum wrote:
Dear Admin
Thank you for a timely and thought provoking explanation of your motives, it certainly gave me pause for thought. Reading the seeding thread led me to wonder as to whether there could not be some way for those who wish to contribute to the site, without using money, to do so.
The most obvious route would seem to me, to be through positive content creation. Might I suggest that you consider offering a star for 6 months to people who have in some way impressed you with their contribution to IC. I think this might be a way to reward positive contributions and act as a motivational device to stimulate similar behaviour in others, benefiting everybody by increasing positive content creation.
However, that immediately raises the issue of who judges the value of the content. I personally would not favour public voting of any sort.
I agree with Platinum. I am mindful of the immense value of the resource that IC has become, for newcomers and those coping with a difficulty particularly. I agree that a star reward for positive content contribution would benefit IC and take it closer to the ideal of a Gift economy than it already is. May I request that this might be considered.

22 Sep 08, 4:01 PM
MisterBear
UK(WA), 5 yrs

spurting_cunt wrote:

Miss_Elainius wrote:

Platinum wrote:
Dear Admin
Thank you for a timely and thought provoking explanation of your motives, it certainly gave me pause for thought. Reading the seeding thread led me to wonder as to whether there could not be some way for those who wish to contribute to the site, without using money, to do so.
The most obvious route would seem to me, to be through positive content creation. Might I suggest that you consider offering a star for 6 months to people who have in some way impressed you with their contribution to IC. I think this might be a way to reward positive contributions and act as a motivational device to stimulate similar behaviour in others, benefiting everybody by increasing positive content creation.
However, that immediately raises the issue of who judges the value of the content. I personally would not favour public voting of any sort.
I agree with Platinum. I am mindful of the immense value of the resource that IC has become, for newcomers and those coping with a difficulty particularly. I agree that a star reward for positive content contribution would benefit IC and take it closer to the ideal of a Gift economy than it already is. May I request that this might be considered.

Sorry but that's an awful idea. The value of content is valued by each person in different ways. I can't see that Admin's estimation of value adds anything to the pot at all. A star awarded as Admin's good conduct star really would be a boy scout award for toadying.
I'd say it's nice to know you're appreciated but people don't contribute their thoughts, knowledge, experience for a pat on the back as other than the occasional thank you post of memo you don't get anything other than maybe a warm fuzzy feeling for being nice. And stars or not people will still contribute in some way or another.
The best possible way I can see for a star system to work would actually require public voting, in the form of a "Did you find this post helpful" button so that Admin can then get a list of helpful posts and see if they deserve something. Although I think it would be easier if there was an extra link on your profile page like the posts section that lists your posts and shows you how many people thought it was helpful. That way it could be automated and private and when all the joke and fun posts get nominated then it's only the author who gets to know about it. And this way most people would get something or some feedback.
Still there's nowt wrong with dropping someone a memo if they have posted something you appreciate.
And out of curiosity, would it be possible to have a way of turning off the star in the donation section or in your profile so that you could donate more than Ł10 without having to do it in batches of just under a tenner?
What I say goes...
.
.
. . . in through one ear and out the other.

22 Sep 08, 4:13 PM
Little_Bitch
UK(S), 5 mths
Sounds good to me

22 Sep 08, 4:22 PM
Sirebel
UK(N), 2 yrs

This is a very interesting point and one that the industry as a whole is grasping to come to terms with. How do you set up a financially viable business model where the majority of the content is created by your customers?
IC requires funding to support the hosting, bandwidth and moderator facilities but the rest of IC should be free. I would prefer to see some information about how much hosting, and bandwidth IC requires but I understand if you don't want to make this public.
One suggestion though is for a sticky or faq area (which can still be maintained by the community) to prevent the repeated asking of basic questions (e.g. admin has already said you don't have to have the star if you donate).
PS. When did the "ownership" of IC change? Did I miss the announcement?

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